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NFTT - feedback thread


#1

Hey!

Thanks to everyone who participated in last nights tournament ^^ I had a great time jumping in and out of matches to check the scores and stuff. I think we all where a bit surprised by MR’s preformance, and Kraetyz had some crazy Geiger ditto going on against NiGHTcapD if i remember correctly.

Anyways, not everything is perfect, so any feedback on what worked and maybe especially on what didn’t work?

Obviously the elephant in the room is that Fivec and Kraetyz has not played their Grand Finals yet. This is not something I want happening again in the future. I did not forsee how long double elimination would take, in addition to halting winners finals until after losers final so that more people could watch both of them.

What should be done to avoid this? If I had had a set time for the tournament to finish, then fivec might have not joined, knowing that he would not be able to see it through to the finals, and that would have solved the problem.

If it is a single elimination tournament, it would also be finished more quickly. But I don’t really want to make it a single elim, tho I see some really good upsides to having it be a single elim tournament.

Any other thoughts?


#2

If you’re worried about time but feel like single elim is too high variance, you could make it single elim but make the sets first-to-three instead of first-to-two.


#3

Must-drop swiss (i.e. the system I use for CASS) runs slightly faster than double elimination, at the cost of not being able to set up the whole bracket ahead of time.


#4

I guess a question that is relevant would be: How long is too long when it comes to a one day tournament?

Relevant information: How long does Best of 5 on medium timer usually take? How long does best of 7 usually take? From my experience (checking over my own recordings), best of 5s can take up towards an hour, which leads me to think that best of 7s can take up to 1,5 hours.


#5

snoc taped his matches, and the longest was against Fivec, which took just over 20 min, while the shorter matches came in around 10, so you’re probably in the 30 min per match range with FT3 on fast timer


#6

bo7/FT4 on medium timer usually takes between 45min and 1.5 hours, yeah


#7

This also highlights the difference between setting of time to play a bo7 or a bo5, in which you are playing for somewhere close to an hour or more, and setting of 3 hours (ca what I did yesterday) where the winners side only play for about half of that time.

One of the things I experienced yesterday was the fact that some of the earlier matches was more watched than the later ones, because after 2 hours time, people lost interest in following it through to the end. To combat this, swiss has a bonus of making more people playing more games, which engages them for longer. But more people playing games also means that there are less spectators, because, obviously, they are busy playing their games.

Personally I feel that single elimination might be the best to keep the spectators entertained, no need to wait for losers bracket to catch up to see the end of the tournament. Since it is single elim, it also makes the time commitment a lot shorter for spectators to do as well.

So there are spectator concerns in addition to player concerns. If players are willing to set of 1.5 hours to play one bo7/ft4, is it too much to ask to have them set of time for a 3 hour one day tournament?


#8

Uh, wait, hang on, what? Winner’s finals loser goes into loser’s finals. How could you have winner’s final after loser’s final??


#9

I guess I am mixing the terminology her, but I wanted to play losers round 4 before Kraetyz and Fivec played the winners final here.


#10

Loser’s final is the last match played in Loser’s bracket, the one directly before the Grand Final.


#11

Bear in mind I was playing Setsuki though, so games are probably going to be a little faster than average one way or the other. Much faster than average if you guess wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME vs Zane still bitter


#12

But the Sets mirror was the longest. :laughing:


#13

I feel like I really want to just keep it the way it is, double elim, bo3, but start it earlier for the benefit of EU people, americans has to get out of bed slightly earlier. But then again, I feel entiteled, since I am putting money into this :stuck_out_tongue: I PAY TO SEE YOU CLOWNS DANCE; SO DANCE!

So basically, I am saying: Somewhere up to 3 hous is not “too much” to expect when arranging a one day tournament. There is plenty of high level yomi to entertain yourself with in between matches as well.

So, someone, please, let me know if that is me overreaching! I don’t want to sit in my bubble and think “This will probably be ok” and have nobody enjoy it.


#14

As a North American on the East coast, that seems fine to me. Last even started at 4pm Eastern Time - an earlier start would be fine, and might even be better, honestly.


#15

So, I was checking out my spreadsheet to see who gets seeds for this saturdays fast timer tournament - then it occurred to me - what do I do with people who have equal amounts of points?

I think I will just go for a coin-flip when it comes to seeding, unless people have problems with it. So if there are inherent problems with this, please let me know!

A slightly larger issue is with the cut-off for the invitational. As of right now, MR and deluks917 have the same amount of points, but the invitational is only supposed to be 8 players. How to fix a problem like that? If there are multiple players who end up having the same amount of points for the cut-off, should I just make them play against eachother? If there are an odd number of players, do I make them do a round robin?

Any suggestions?


#16

I would do a coin flip for the seedings for the monthly tournament. In the event of a tie for the invitational, I would have them square off for a best of 3 fast timer match. If you had three tied for one spot, I would use a RNG to give one player a bye and do a quick single elim tournament.

Things get a bit dicey in certain scenarios. For example, you could have three players tied for the last two spots. In this scenario, the person that received the bye would automatically qualify, and the other two players would fight for the last spot. I think this scenario is unlikely, and I usually like speedy resolutions, so I would probably still use this over a round robin. The choice is yours.


#17

Maybe another way could be a sort of highest place points count with a cut off of the worst placement (more than one if needed)
For example: MR (me :laughing:) and deluks917 have both 16 points, but
deluks has a 16 + 0 points places and MR 8 + 8 points places.
So, cut off worst points palcement ( 0 for deluks and 8 for MR) --> deluks will go on


#18

Also sounds like a good way of doing it, if there arent any ties for placements as well :wink: