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Mono-color tourney: Measuring Interest & Discussion


#14

One option without actually changing the game at all is if you get into a black vs blue matchup the blue player is allowed to change their spec for that match to another color.


#15

I’d be interested in this type of tournament! I think it’s a little easier to predict what an opponent can do when they are on monocolor as opposed to multi, though it could just be my relative lack of codex knowledge.


#16

Yeah, I’m in.


#17

Another approach to addressing imbalances between different colors which doesn’t require any special casing would be to play games in pairs, switching specs. For example, something like:

  • Each participant chooses a color when entering the tournament.
  • Each participant plays a pair of games vs. each other participant.
  • In the first game of each pair, players play as the color they chose.
  • In the second game of each pair, players play as the color their opponent chose.
  • Players accumulate a number of points for each win (a flat 1, their remaining base HP, or some other valuation method)
  • When all games have been completed, whoever has the highest point total wins the tournament.

Personally, I like the idea of a monocolored tournament, but don’t like the idea of special case rules. If Finesse is allowed to be swapped in for a spec, I’d want Bashing to be allowed also. If a swap is allowed in one game, I’d want a swap to be allowed for each game. I don’t like the idea of guaranteeing one color the first turn vs. another, even if there’s a justified perception that there’s an imbalance, but I wouldn’t mind allowing lower ranked players to choose whether to play first or second. In other words, I’m not too picky about what the rules are, as long as they’re consistent.


#18

This sounds like a fun idea. Another option is to let players choose two colors and let them change on the basis of the match-up. There are several ways to do that, one is that you play twice against each opponent and in each game one player has a ‘home’ advantage - which means the opponent chooses one of their colors first, and the home team chooses second. That way, you can pick blue as one of your colors and avoid the bad match-up.


#20

Update on plans:

I didn’t want to step on the toes of anything @EricF had cooking, and it sounds like signups will begin soon for CAUS (with a planned start date of the summer solstice, June 20).

But I thought of an idea that:

A) Accomplishes what I really wanted out of a mono-tourney, which is to get some starting data on what the expected win % is in each mono-matchup, and
B) Allows for games to run at whatever pace players are comfortable

What I have in mind is a format something like this:

  • We hold signups for players to play in one or more 10-game series of one specific mono vs mono matchup (I’d keep a spreadsheet of who’s playing what against what)
  • Once a matchup has players on both sides (e.g. Someone has signed up for Green vs Red, and someone else has Red vs Green), those two players start a “warm-up/experimentation” series, similar to how @Nekoatl and me are doing with Black vs Blue (see here)
  • Once both players feel “expert enough” to have a good handle on that matchup, they start a 10-game series
  • A “Master Thread” (I’ll administer) will link to each game in that 10-game series, so spectators can easily see how each game plays out (I’ll summarize any finished game in the link, something like “Black Defeats Blue on P2T6 via Metamorphosis”)
  • “Tournament Series” runs as long as it takes to finish all the 10-game series

We’d only need 15-20 players if some are willing to do 2-3 matchups, as there are only 15 matchups when you leave out mirror matches.

I’ll get started on the spreadsheet for signups, but please indicate your interest by replying to the poll below!

#Would you be interested in playing one (or more) 10-game mono vs mono series?

  • Yes, I want to join the data-gathering mono experiment!
  • No thanks, this doesn’t sound fun

0 voters


[Series] Monocolor Matchup Madness 1! Sign up today!
#21

This seems like a great idea! I voted yes, but I won’t be able to do it for a couple weeks at least (lots of IRL stuff keeping me busy, plus IYL5 as an existing commitment). Hopefully I can help with this later, though!


#22

I think if the idea is to collect data you should seek it from more than one series between two players, there’s a lot of variance in player skill and prejudice about certain cards, etc that will skew the results


#23

You gotta start somewhere :wink:

I agree that this will not be totally indicative of the “true” nature of the matchup “expert vs expert”. I’d rather be inclusive and get “decent results” collected earlier though, rather than “waiting” for “experts”.

We can always run another series next year / season / however long it takes! Or we can have people “challenge the results” of any matchup and take the “losing side” in a rematch to prove a color more worthy!


#24

Yeah this sounds like an on going project that doesn’t need an end date. I would be interested but honestly not interested in having to play 10 matches, seems like overkill


#25

I’ve found (with Green vs Red and Black vs Blue at least, the two mono-matchups I’ve played a lot of) the more I play the matchup, the more interesting it gets! So many little wrinkles in both draws and techs and gold spending that you can have 5 very different scenarios play out in 5 games of the exact same matchup and position.

I’d encourage you to consider trying it (you’re obviously a strong player so your results would be prized ^_^), but to each their own :wink:


#26

Another way to go about it is to completely randomized pairing and assignment to match-ups. Say that each player 10 games, and you’ll play several different match-ups but you don’t know who you’ll face. I get that you want each player to ‘specialize’ in a match-up but if you want people to have several match-ups anyway, it makes sense to randomize it such that they face different people.


#27

I’d hate to have to play like 15 games of a matchup I’m disinterested in.


#28

Yea @holytispon I think the jury is in on “assigning” matchups, while I’d be game for doing that it didn’t seem like the community here wants to spend time playing decks they didn’t pick. I’d rather people be selecting and enjoying the matches.


#29

I thought the original suggestion had players picking multiple match ups. So my point is - you could let people choose 2-3 match-ups and then randomize the games. It’s best if there’s some overlap, but maybe there aren’t enough players? In any case, I’ll participate either way.


#30

BTW, @FrozenStorm - your Black Vs. Blue series has some of the most bonkers games I’ve. That Tech 3 mega slugfest following the Lich’s Bargain early on was just really cool. But the whole series is truly educational and it’s why I love this idea.


#31

is the monoc tourney happening? i see warm up matches, but no official thread


#32

People are signed up and playing games. It has no fixed schedule, people will complete games as they are able.


#33

so i guess sign ups ended?


#34

this thread: http://forums.sirlingames.com/t/2689