News Shop
Events Forums

Mono Blue vs P1 mono black


#1

Hi there

@payprplayn
@FrozenStorm

I have played several matches as P2 mono blue vs mono black.
The only two times I won was due to a big early black misplay. Or due to black player missed the line that could have won him on his last turn.

Other games were total devastation. Blue side cant do anything but barely delay the inevitable.

P1 mono black
4g
Vandy 2g
Javelin skeleton 1g
Ghost 1g
Worker 0g
No patrol

What options do you have in your turn?

What do you think of this matchup. Are there any strategies that P2 blue should follow or is blue doomed from turn1 ?
What does @EricF think of this match ?


#2

Have you ever tried Pig in SL Traffic Director in Technician?


#3

If you can make it to Tech II, I wonder if this is where Alpha and Guardian come into play, with weenies to protect them from Sac the Weak?


#4

I will give my more thorough thoughts another time, on mobile right now.

TL DR though is it is very tough for blue, a tower helps but you can get into big trouble with a bad draw


#5

P1T2
Gold 5g, Vandy midband 3g attacks pig
Skeleton uses javelin safely kills pig
Haunt kills traffic dr
Worker 2g. Heroes hall 0g.

Or
Gold 5, Deteriorate 5g, midband Vandy 3g kills pig
Skeleton safely kills traffic d. Play haunt (or attack base with haunt if already played) 3g. Worker 2g. Heroes hall 0g.

The biggest issue is that I couldnt find an effective way to kill blacks’ heroes. I need luck of my draws and bad luck for black draws .
I tried peace to play Alpha SL
Law to censorship
Law to Guardian
Tech lab for hasted tech 3
Truth for cheap illusions that dont die from target

All plans failed
As a bonus, black’s tech 1 crypt crawler can kill tech3 birds just by paying 2g. Also nullifies Law tech3 flying base (by the time your base is flying, metamorphosis is probably active).

Quince has hard time keeping himself and his mirror illusions alive.


#6

Just to clarify, you were able to get to Tech II and/or Tech III in these games, but then you eventually get overrun? If that’s the case, I’d just keep trying different Tech II strategies until I found one that worked (if any of them can work). Ideally, have your opponent play the same opener and Tech II strategy while you try different things.

For example, in your list, I didn’t see the Tech II Garrison/Lieutenant line listed, and that seems like it might be worth a try, since it can go broad (filling the board with lots of units), and tall (making one or two units massive with runes). But I don’t know - I haven’t really played any mono-Blue.


#7

Okay for more resources, see here and here

The most success I’ve had is with Tower + Scribe + Onimaru.

Trust me that no matter what you do in the first few turns, you will come out behind on board. A start like Vandy + Jav + Haunt with follow-up into Deteriorate / StW is hard for any starter to handle, and blue especially struggles with it having very little aggressive-trading units.

Your goal is to stick Newsman on 0 and Traffic Director / Building Inspector + tower + tech 1 in the first two turns, then set up Onimaru behind Scribes and Cadets, maybe Tax Collector if you’re feeling frisky.

The primary issue is Vandy levels super cheap and gets cards for free with Dark Pact, so she makes super good trades in the first four turns, and if she hits maxband with a Hero’s Hall she’s of IMMEDIATE danger.

Honestly I’ve played 20-ish games of this matchup, and Vandy -> HH -> Garth -> Disease Tech 2 -> Threaten Crows or Metamorph is SUPER hard to deal with. Peace machine is a little too slow to stop Vandy threatening Meta, Law running Scribes and Insurance Agents to land a Censorship Council and play for Lawbringer is a tight squeeze, and Truth just gets wrecked by Deteriorate + Dark Pact (and don’t say “Put Newsman on 0”, you can’t protect him from board pressure / StW for long at all).

Blue P2 against a Black P1 that plays the above line is, in my guesstimation, 20% to win at best in an expert v expert matchup. I’d love to be wrong about this, but the games I’ve played of the matchup don’t suggest as much, as I’ve tried a LOT of different things as Blue.

Free Speech can help, but it’s expensive and leaves you very beatable on the board; Quince usually just gives free levels. Injunction doesn’t matter at all to Vandy + Garth, they’ll play at tech 0 and just metamorph. Elite Training can help but it’s expensive and Oni is liable to give away levels. Maxing out Oni to try and Base Race can get close by Garth usually gets a nether drain off to kill Oni before you can make it to double hammer range.

Really the tower and good draws vs bad draws for Black are about as good as you can hope for. If you find a better solution, please let me know!


#8

We just played our first Blue vs Black match today, and we found ourselves in a similar predicament.

Granted, I as the Blue player didn’t have any particular strategy in mind, but the game ended on turn 2 after the black player leveled up Vandy and killed my everything. I’m sure I could have done things better but reading through this topic makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Really the tower and good draws vs bad draws for Black are about as good as you can hope for.

If a match-up devolves to early draws, and that’s for two of the stock decks that are actually in the same box (and which are supposedly balanced against one-another), this doesn’t speak great for the health of this game.


#9

Theory crafting here, but I would try floating more gold early.

A gameplan of:
Turn 1: play 1 cost guy, patrol in scavenger, float 3 gold
Turn 2: build tech 1, play a 1-2 cost guy, patrol in Technician, float 6 gold.
Turn 3: develop an actual board, possibly including a tech 2 building.

You will, of course, take a bunch of base damage, but mono black has limited “reach,” so you. An safely go down to 10 health as long as you have a plan for stopping Metamorphosis.


#10

How would that fare against a rushdown plan with lich’s bargain?


#11

I don’t even know how it would fare against basic tempo play for Black. I mean, yeah, Black might not be able to deal lethal to base against a no-hero slow-play, but they’ll definitely deny tech I (and therefore tech II) indefinitely at that point?

If I had a regular buddy to play against and more than an idle interest in mono-Blue… and way more free time. :’(


#12

You’d get to dump quite a few resources on the board in turn 3 though. Maybe open with just spells, leaving the tech 1 as a decoy until you can use heroes to stabilize. Build a heroes Hall?


#13

I’m happy to play black PbF against anyone that thinks they have the answer. I mean that, as I really want to be proven wrong; I want to know how Blue P2 wins (shoot even Blue P1 struggles pretty hard in my experience).


Blue vs Black box
#14

I can’t conceive of a solid blue response to Vandy + Skeletal Javaliner + Worker on P1T1.

Musketeer and/or Porkhand + block is the best I have and it’s a pretty sad attempt.

Black seems to have all the game at Tech 0 and blue seems to have no compensation at any higher tier.


#15

Sure, open a thread and take your first 3 turns, assuming I play a Building Inspector in Scavenger Turn 1 and build my Tech 1 + patrol a Traffic Director in Technician Turn 2 (Floating 7 gold). If you decide not to kill the BI on turn 1, he patrols in Technician on turn 2, and the Traffic Director patrols as Squad Leader (and I only float 6 gold).

I’ll decide what to tech after I see what you do, to make the research better.


Black vs Blue: FrozenStorm & EricF experiment
#16

@EricF Oh man, so I assume you’re suggesting you’ll pick the game up on P2T3 Blue, and make your turn 2 tech choices based on only my P1T1&2? This sounds like lots of fun!


#17

Just to be clear, I’ll be basing my T2 tech choices on what you do on your T3, to make it easier to discover “what blue should do.”

I will probably also cheat a little in determining my draws.


#18

If it were me, I would start with Vandy + Javaliner and then add Jandra + Tech 1 on turn 2.

Probably wouldn’t play more to the board in order to reduce the ability of Bigby + Judgement Day to wreck me. Would direct whatever damage possible to Tech 1 and the rest to the base.


#19

from my experience judgment day is the last thing blue think about against black.
Blue needs his units more than black since black really just need the heroes and can afford to lose units


#20

In a normal game where both players are attempting to play in the first 2 turns, I would tend to agree.

In this context, P2 is going T1 pass T2 pass in order to hoard gold for a comeback attempt at T3+

The comeback attempts with the most potential are going to be the ones that can cause a large reduction in P1s force before P1 untaps. Rule those out by making them not cost effective and it gets harder for P2.

If P1 is able to get a tech 1 building kill on P1T3, that further narrows the comeback methods at P2’s disposal. That’s part of why I am partial to using Jandra on P1T2.