I’m sure I wouldn’t have to look hard for a quote involving there being a thin line between confidence and foolishness; I’m sure I’ve been wrong more often than I’ve been correct. I’ve just spent enough time lurking on the Sirlin Games forums for all the games, I’m beginning to think I like reading rulebooks and understanding mechanics than I do actually spending time playing games. It’s a solid community, which is why I like hanging out here. I happened to see your question and thought I could field it.
As for your Zane’s Landmine question, you’re right that there isn’t anything else that talks about revival. Most cards breaks the rules somehow, and unless too many people question it, it doesn’t get answered in a FAQ. This is worthy of one though. First, I need to backtrack a moment.
I’ll start by saying I stand by my earlier answer to your first question in that Vendetta will always act first since he is the attacker. However, my example was flawed and I didn’t realize it until after sleeping on it. Vendetta does NOT have the option of reacting to Gloria’s ability retroactively. The rule states “the player who’s turn it is acts first.” Step by step it would go like:
- Vendetta dashing strikes
- Timing trigger for dashing strike abilities activates
- Vendetta is first in choosing actions because it is his turn. He may active Stunlock. He may also choose first to NOT act on this timing trigger.
- Next player (Gloria in this case, but this would also help solve weird 3 or more player questions) chooses next. She may or may not activate Ray of Hope.(I think it would be a waste if Stunlock is active though, because Gloria skips her next turn. I think this fits Vendetta’s MO, as he’s an assassin that cripples his opponent then strikes for the win. If Stunlock isn’t active, then it would be viable as an option.)
- Vendetta discards his played cards then draws back to five. Note, he does NOT get to respond to Gloria’s choice of playing or not playing Ray of Hope because that timing trigger has already happened.
Ok, with that clarified, I think some of the wonky situations I was thinking of in multiplayer gets exponentially easier. Like the Landmine problem. Let’s tackle (lol, Shoulder Ram, get it?) that.
Yes, for all intents and purposes, whomever lands on or is pushed by the landmine is dead (hit). If both team members manage to hit it at the same time, Zane’s team wins. We’ll focus on just one team member hitting it, then show how multiple people could hit it. Say Grave and Jaina are that team and Grave hits the landmine. Normally his token would be immediately removed from the board, never to return. Because of the revive stipulation, you could just put his token beside the space where the landmine was, or the space he would have landed on if he was pushed. The landmine is removed from play immediately and play continues on like normal. If Jaina ever lands on that same space that Grave’s token is next to, he would be back in the game and take his turn again when appropriate.
I think that’s where you are confused, maybe.
If we look at the timing of everything in order, I don’t think this is possible. Say the spaces looks something like this: Landmine, Jaina, Grave, Zane. The exact number between the landmine, Jaina and Grave doesn’t really matter, as long as Zane is standing next to Grave. It’s Zane’s turn so he has two options regarding the landmine. He can Push Grave into the landmine, OR potentially Shoulder Ram them both into it.
If he Pushes Grave, Jaina isn’t affected and play continues like the above paragraph. He wouldn’t have time to immediately Push Jaina back to Grave’s (dare I say grave?) token space Now, if Jaina plays her turn and Zane chooses to push her back on the same space, yes, that would revive Grave. Not the best move for Zane, but it’s an option.
The other option, which would totally be Zane, is that he could try and Shoulder Ram Grave and Jaina into the landmine. After typing out a paragraph about how he could blow them all up, including himself if he got unlucky, I checked the rulebook FAQ and this situation is addressed. Basically, Grave and Jaina would get hit first by the landmine but Zane would be fine. I don’t think that means Zane is immune to it if he lands on it first, but it covers the Shoulder Ram aspect and makes it a rather powerful combo.
I think that covers all the options. I don’t mean to complicate things, but breaking timing down can get detailed.
Next time a rules question comes up, remember timing is everything. Heck, I misread that important timing rule and got more confused. Once I realized that, any other complications that crop up, I think I could walk though. I think I understood your confusion, but if this didn’t help, give me the exact situation that’s the problem and we can work on it from there.
It does want make me want to play Zane now and do that exact combo. It’s powerful, but not overly so. If your opponent knows what you’re going to doing something obvious, they can play around it. And if Zane blows through two abilities in one turn and it doesn’t work out, he’ll be crippled the rest of the round. Interesting stuff to think about, so thanks for asking the question!