Ignore that post, I put it in the wrong thread!
Thatās cool. I would have noticed something wrong when you tried to play Morningstar Flagbearer with the red starter. It is your turn though. Again, no pressure, I just thought that the mistake might have messed up your system for knowing when itās your turn (i.e. by marking my turn as read), so I just thought Iād remind you that I did actually take a turn.
Player 2 Turn 2
Tech, Starting Hand and Workers
TECH
Birdās Nest
Calypso Vystari
STARTING HAND
Makeshift Rambaster
Bombaster
Mad Man
Scorch
Nautical Dog
WORKERS
Bloodburn
Scorch
Next Hand
Birdās Nest
Bloodrage Ogre
Careless Musketeer
Mad Man
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Rook kills Javelineer and takes 1 damage
Recruit Mad Man - ($4)
Mad Man and Ogre trade with Vandy, Rook gains 2 free levels
Build Tech I - ($2)
Recruit Bombaster - ($0)
Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Bombaster (2/2+a)
- [I]Elite[/I]:
- [I]Scavenger[/I]:
- [I]Technician[/I]:
-
[I]Lookout[/I]:
[B]In Play:[/B] - Garus Rook Lv. 3 (2/3)
[B]Buildings:[/B] - Base HP: 20
- Tech I HP: 5
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 4
- Deck: 5
- Disc: 0
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 0
- Workers: 7
Thoughts
A pretty good turn! Killed Vandy before she became unreasonable and made it possibleto get higher level Rook without wasting tons of gold. Got Birdās Nest in my new hand, and added Calypso Vystari as a 1-drop that synergises well with either an Earthquake-heavy strategy or Growth Tech II. Speaking of which, thatās probably what Iām going with.
@payprplayn, itās your turn whenever youāre ready! No pressure on you either, but it has been almost 24 hours. Just want to make sure youāre aware.
Iām aware. Iāve been unwell. Iāll take a turn tomorrow.
Sorry for the delay. Youāve got me in a tight spot yet again. What am I doing wrong?
P1T3
Tech StartingHand Workers
TECH
Ardraās Boulder
Mythmaking
STARTING HAND
Dark Pact.
Jandra, the Negator
Sacrifice the Weak
Thieving Imp
Summon Skeletons
WORKERS
Poisonblade Rogue
Skeletal Archery
Summon Skeletons
NextHand
Deteriorate
Graveyard
Thieving Imp
Nimble Fencer
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Sacrifice the Weak - ($3)
Jandra, the Negator - ($0)
Pestering Haunt deals 1 damage to rook and dies
Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 3, reshuffle, draw 1
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Jandra, the Negator (3/3+A)
- [I]Elite[/I]:
- [I]Scavenger[/I]:
- [I]Technician[/I]:
-
[I]Lookout[/I]:
[B]In Play:[/B]
[B]Buildings:[/B]
- Base HP: 20
- Tech I HP: 5
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 4
- Deck: 5
- Disc: 0
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 0
- Workers: 7
Thoughts
So, that happened. Now Itās just trying to stop the bleeding, I think.
Edit: @Hobusu fixed also FYI, I will in general tend to be more available to take turns during the week (especially business hours) than I will during the evenings/weekends. I have a lot of downtime at work, and thatās when I take my turns. On weekends and evenings, I often (but not always) have other things going on, so it might be hit or miss.
Might want to fix that!
Since fixing your turn wonāt affect anything I do, hereās my turn!
Player 2 Turn 3
Tech, Starting Hand and Workers
TECH
Surprise Attack
Entangling Vines
STARTING HAND
Birdās Nest
Mad Man
Careless Musketeer
Bloodrage Ogre
Charge
WORKERS
Bloodburn
Scorch
Careless Musketeer
Next Hand
Nautical Dog
Calypso Vystari
Makeshift Rambaster
Pillage
Discard
Bombaster
Mad Man
Charge
Surprise Attack
Entangling Vines
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Recruit Bloodrage Ogre - ($4)
Level Rook to Lv. 5 - ($2)
Rook casts Birdās Nest, summoning Cucco and Pipi - ($0)
Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 4
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Bloodrage Ogre (3/2+a)
- [I]Elite[/I]:
- [I]Scavenger[/I]: Cucco (1/1) (Flying)
- [I]Technician[/I]: Garus Rook Lv. 5 (3/5) (Ignores lone patrollers when attacking)
-
[I]Lookout[/I]: Pipi (1/1) (Flying)
[B]In Play:[/B] - Birdās Nest
[B]Buildings:[/B] - Base HP: 20
- Tech I HP: 5
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 4
- Deck: 0
- Disc: 5
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 0
- Workers: 8
Thoughts
I think I should be able to lock this down pretty well. Going for Growth Tech II, and teching a spell for Rook and a spell for Zane. Both will be useful if Rook survives, but if he dies then Surprise Attack could help. Next turn Iāll definitely tech Might of Leaf and Claw, but Iām not sure whether to go for Blooming Ancient or another MoLaC to guarantee getting it fast.
Iāve been working on my turn, but honestly, it already feels like I can resign here. I think Iām teching wrong against you. Iāve got to get my opening turns figured out. Your build starts strong. Would it bother you if I threw in the towel here? Iām more interested in workshopping my early game than in trying to rescue a fairly desperate situation. Iām not sure if my codex is flawed, or Iām just misplaying it. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I donāt think that your Codex is flawed ā at least not enough to make this unwinnable. One thing I noticed looking over it is that the Black starter has few good blockers for the early game. Jandra is strong, but itās hard to have her as part of a defensive line because most of your other units die with her, and aside from her and Thieving Imp (both of which cost 3) you donāt have anything with more than 1 HP. For that reason, if you stick with the Black starter you need to be careful about how you plan your first two turns, especially against the Red starter. Getting a hero kill is pretty important for Rook to be able to level up, so making sure I canāt kill your hero is essential.
Teching Nimble Fencer was good, since the threat of it was something I had to play around the whole game. Admittedly, your Tech I options are a bit awkward ā Gargoyle and Twilight Baron both come with restrictions, Ardraās Boulder doesnāt have any ATK unless Mythmaking is in play, and Star-Crossed Starlet is rarely useful without a Nimble Fencer to give it haste. Also, none of them cost 1 gold, and one of them costs as much a 4! Because of that, moneyās going to be tight until youāve got your Tech II down. Once you get to Tech II though, Terras Q is a huge threat (on par with many Tech III!) as long as you can combo with something to unshackle him.
On the other hand, Vandyās biggest threat is probably Metamorphosis. Building a Heroesā Hall and getting Vandy to max is a huge threat ā for 9 gold, you can fetch her Ultimate from your Codex, summon Rook (and/or River), and cast it to have at least two invisible +2/+2 max-level heroes on your side. Even if you never actually cast Metamorphosis, the potential to use it will warp how your opponent has to play, which could give you a chance to work towards Terras Q.
Iām fine with another round if you want to keep experimenting, or you could try switching one of your specs.
Iād like to try a few more games with this spec before I give up on it. Why donāt you go first for the next game.
OK. While it might not help directly with getting this one to work, you might want to check the Codex Resources thread (pinned in the Codex category) while you wait for my turn.
Alright. Iāve already looked at a fair amount of that, but thereās still quite a bit I havenāt checked out.
Full disclosure, Iāll probably be pretty busy this week. Might only be able to do one turn each day for a while.
Player 1 Turn 1
Starting Hand and Workers
STARTING HAND
Pillage
Bloodburn
Scorch
Bombaster
Mad Man
WORKERS
Scorch
Next Hand
Charge
Careless Musketeer
Nautical Dog
Makeshift Rambaster
Bloodrage Ogre
Discard
Bloodburn
Bombaster
Pillage
Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($4)
Worker - ($3)
Summon Rook - ($1)
Recruit Mad Man - ($0)
Mad Man pokes your Base, dealing 1 damage
Float ($0)
Discard 3, draw 5
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Garus Rook Lv. 1 (2/4+a)
- [I]Elite[/I]:
- [I]Scavenger[/I]:
- [I]Technician[/I]:
-
[I]Lookout[/I]:
[B]In Play:[/B] - Mad Man (1/1) (Haste)
[B]Buildings:[/B] - Base HP: 20
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 5
- Deck: 0
- Disc: 3
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 0
- Workers: 5
Thoughts
Not the best opening hand, but itāll do for now. Notably, poking his base means Earthquake canāt āmissā it if I use it to destroy his tech buildings. Probably will play Ogre next turn.
The more I think about it, the more this does just seem like a bad matchup. I canāt see any way in this matchup to deal with early red pressure into Birdsā Nest. Iāve got limited options to deal with the nest as it is, and they all seem to fail against the red starter with t3 gunpoint taxman. In any case, I guess itās worth 1 more try anyway.
P2T1
StartingHand Workers
STARTING HAND
Skeleton Javelineer
Sacrifice the Weak
Thieving Imp
Graveyard
Pestering Haunt
WORKERS
Pestering Haunt
NextHand
Skeletal Archery
Poisonblade Rogue
Jandra, the Negator
Summon Skeletons
Deteriorate
Discard
Graveyard
Sacrifice the Weak
Thieving Imp
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Vandy - ($2)
Skeleton Javelineer - ($1)
Float ($1)
Discard 3, draw 5
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Skeleton Javelineer (1/1 +A)
- [I]Elite[/I]: Vandy lvl 1 (3/3)
- [I]Scavenger[/I]:
- [I]Technician[/I]:
-
[I]Lookout[/I]:
[B]In Play:[/B]
[B]Buildings:[/B]
- Base HP: 19
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 5
- Deck: 0
- Disc: 5
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 1
- Workers: 6
Thoughts
Iād like to do something different this game, delaying tech 1 for an early Heroesā Hall. The trick is figuring out a way to deal with his pressure. I initially considered Thieving Imp, but spending 3 for a 2/2 in the face of all his potential threats seems sketchy, despite the appeal of the card advantage. Rook is the one thing I could play this turn that I can be pretty sure wonāt die (unless he spends all his gold on a scorch, or 2 cards AND alll his gold on a unit + Charge), so maybe thats the play. The question then is, do I build my HH now, and telegraph my plan, or do I take the risk of floating 2 gold against a possible pirate+pillage? Maybe Hero + Javelineer to block + float 1 is best here. Itās flexible, safe(-ish), and doesnāt give anything away. Which hero, then? Vandy is the biggest threat, but doesnāt work toward the BN+TS plan I want. River is the weakest, but easy to level, and her max band opens up the option of maxing her + playing Jandra next turn. Rook is the safest in the short term, but the hardest to level for heals. Iām going to try this with Rook, I think, then go Jandra + HH next turn. Tech is the last question. Iād like to go BN + TS, but if I get Two Step without Birdās Nest, I might not have 2 units to cast it on. If I go Dark Pact +BN I have a better chance of T3 BN, but he usually techs GPT, which could wreck this whole thing with its anti-air. The more I think about it, the more I think this is just a bad matchup. I think this is a decent codex, but going against early red pressure into flyers, itās tough, since my only option against birdsā nest is Gargoyle or my own Birdsā nest, both of which lose to gunpoint taxman, and while I think this deck wants to be agressive, itās hard to do that against the red starter, especially as player 2. Iām tempted to play Skeletal archery, tbh, but summon skeletons is just bad value, and my only other skeleton is javelineer. Bottom line, itās not worth it, and the fact that Iām even considering it shows how difficult this matchup is. I do feel like Iāve been getting bad draws, though.
oops, accidentally teched cards. Fixing it nowā¦
@Hobusu fixed.
Fun Fact ā¢: I didnāt even tech Gunpoint Taxman last game.
One thing I might suggest is to experiment with things other than Boulder & Mythmaking. You know Birds are coming, so maybe a Gargoyle would help? Take my advice with a grain of salt, though. Itās not like Iāve ever tried that codex.
Fun fact: I havenāt teched both of those cards since the first game. Iāve tried teching gargoyle, but it never seemed worth playing. Itās a really expensive blocker against birds that keep coming back, so the only reasonable way I can see to use it against Birdsā Nest is to go after Rook with it, but I can only do that if youāre not patrolling with your birds OR with taxman. I mean, I have plenty of ways to deal with a couple of 1/1 fliers (and Gargoyle isnāt the best of them), the issue is that that doesnāt really mean much unless I can take Rook out, and heās beefy. The black starter is weak against heroes (according to the guide at least, and it sure feels that way to me), and unless I can get through, the nest will eventually take me down. Iāve actually toyed with the idea of summon skeletons with skeletal archery, but that just seems too expensive. I think my best option is probably just my own birdsā nest, but there are issues there too.
Player 1 Turn 2
Tech, Starting Hand and Workers
TECH
Calypso Vystari
Birdās Nest
STARTING HAND
Careless Musketeer
Charge
Makeshift Rambaster
Nautical Dog
Bloodrage Ogre
WORKERS
Scorch
Careless Musketeer
Next Hand
Nautical Dog
Charge
Bombaster
Birdās Nest
Pillage
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Build Tech I - ($2)
Recruit Bloodrage Ogre - ($0)
Float ($0)
Discard 3, reshuffle, draw 5
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Bloodrage Ogre (3/2+a)
- [I]Elite[/I]:
- [I]Scavenger[/I]:
- [I]Technician[/I]:
-
[I]Lookout[/I]: Mad Man (1/1) (Haste, Resist 1)
[B]In Play:[/B] - Garus Rook Lv. 1 (2/4)
[B]Buildings:[/B] - Base HP: 20
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 5
- Deck: 3
- Disc: 0
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 0
- Workers: 6
Thoughts
I could have killed Vandy (and probably should have), but I want to see how he does when Iām not snowballing with Rook. Also, that would be committing pretty hard to a hero-centric plan, which may or may not be what I want. Teched Birdās Nest and Calypso Vystari again for the same reasons as last time.
I have no Idea if this is a good plan, but here goesā¦
P2T2
Tech StartingHand Workers
TECH
Twilight Baron
Soul Stone
STARTING HAND
Jandra, the Negator
Deteriorate
Poisonblade Rogue
Skeletal Archery
Summon Skeletons
WORKERS
Pestering Haunt
Skeletal Archery
NextHand
Thieving Imp
Jandra, the Negator
Graveyard
Soul Stone
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Deteriorate Ogre
Vandy kills Ogre, takes 2
Level Vandy, she heals - ($4)
Javelineer spends rune, kills mad man
Poisonblade Rogue - ($2)
Tech 1 - ($0)
Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]:
- [I]Elite[/I]:
- [I]Scavenger[/I]:
- [I]Technician[/I]: Poisonblade Rogue (2/1)
-
[I]Lookout[/I]:
[B]In Play:[/B] - Vandy lvl 3 (3/4 resist 1)
- Skeleton Javelineer (no rune, 1/1)
[B]Buildings:[/B] - Base HP: 19
- Tech I HP: 5
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 4
- Deck: 4
- Disc: 0
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 0
- Workers: 7
Thoughts
I originally was going to go Jandra+ Heroesā Hall, but Iām concerned about having too many heroes and not enough units. He doesnāt get free levels for killing my units. I therefore need blockers. I almost played Summon Skeletons + Heroesā Hall, but that didnāt seem much better. As much as I like the idea of an early heroesā hall with my deck, I donāt think it works against his. I decided to go for clearing his board. Iām a bit concerned for Vandyās safety here, but I think she should be fine. Transitioning into Demons, I think. Iāll try to get a heroesā hall soon so I can discord and plow through his defenses with Jandra and/or Twilight Baron
Player 1 Turn 3
Tech, Starting Hand and Workers
TECH
Gunpoint Taxman
Ardraās Boulder
STARTING HAND
Charge
Nautical Dog
Bombaster
Birdās Nest
Pillage
WORKERS
Scorch
Careless Musketeer
Pillage
Next Hand
Bloodburn
Calypso Vystari
Makeshift Rambaster
Discard
Bloodrage Ogre
Mad Man
Charge
Gunpoint Taxman
Ardraās Boulder
Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Recruit Bombaster - ($3)
Rook casts Birdās Nest, summoning Cucco and Pipi - ($1)
Recruit Nautical Dog - ($0)
Rook kills Poisonblade Rogue and takes 2 damage
Float ($0)
Discard 1, draw 3
[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]
- [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Bombaster (2/2+a)
- [I]Elite[/I]:
- [I]Scavenger[/I]: Pipi (1/1) (Flying)
- [I]Technician[/I]: Nautical Dog (1/1) (Frenzy 1)
-
[I]Lookout[/I]: Cucco (1/1) (Flying, Resist 1)
[B]In Play:[/B] - Birdās Nest
- Garus Rook Lv. 1 (2/2)
[B]Buildings:[/B] - Base HP: 20
[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]
- Hand: 3
- Deck: 0
- Disc: 5
[B]Gold:[/B] - Gold: 0
- Workers: 7
Thoughts
Not liking this positionā¦ Have to kill the Rogue to prevent -1/-1 runes being put on Rook, but now heās pretty vulnerable. If Rook doesnāt survive this, Iāll be thinking about going Anarchy and stalling to Tech III.