Casual: Keybounce (mono-white) vs Frozen Storm (past / blood / discipline)

Codex Codex play-by-forum
21

Grave just died so you can’t bring him right back out. Rook or Setsuki are valid plays though

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22

Ugh, I can’t believe I did that.

Give me a moment

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23

Yea, make it Rook. … grumble grumble please don’t kill him before I can protect and level him :slight_smile:

24

Sorry, I’ll be killing Rook AND that Tech 2

Game 1, Player 2, Turn 4

P1 White vs P2 [Past]/Blood/Discipline

[details=Starting Hand]
Battle Suits
Crash Bomber
Tinkerer
Stewardess of the Undone
Rambasa Twin
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (8+1float)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Origin Story, Seer
War Drums, Rambasa Twin
Crash Bomber, Stewardess of the Undone
[/details]

###Main:

  • Stewardess of the Undone, hasted from Drakk maxband, bounces Smoker to your hand, paying resist 1 (5)
  • Battle Suits (3)
  • Mox kills SQL Rambasa back to your codex
  • Fading Argo kills Rook, you get 1g
  • Nullcraft kills techn Rambasa to your discard, you draw 1
  • Drakk and Stewardess break your tech 2, your base to 18
  • Hero’s Hall (1)
  • Worker (0)

[details=Workers]
Tinkerer, Forgotten Fighter, Plasmodium, Time Spiral
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 2 Draw 3 rs Draw 1
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 17
  • Tech1 HP: 5
  • Hero’s Hall HP: 4

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader:
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • Stewardess of the Undone (3/3)
  • Fading Argonaut (3/1 fade 1)
  • Hardened Mox (2/1)
  • Nullcraft (1/1)
  • Drakk (3/4 lvl 6)

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

####Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 9

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Temporal Research
Neo Plexus
War Drums
Rambasa Twin
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]

[details=My Thoughts]
He needed a tower here, or just straight max Rook. Rambasa was a solid second choice, with a tower would have been okay, but I’m going to lock this down as it stands.
[/details]

25

So I’m pretty much dead/lost. Fine.

Now to look back; when did I misplay / lose?

… Can I use spells to come back? Units won’t work at this point.

EDIT: Ok. turn 3 I could not spend enough gold. Turn 4, while I had a “big” play in terms of what I could do with spare gold, it wasn’t enough.

So, either I misplayed badly with turn 2’s combat, or turn 3 wasn’t done well enough. And other than putting down a tower, I’m not sure what else I might have needed/done.

26

See my thoughts for some tips

27

In my past games, the tower has not been significant. 1 point of damage to something as it leaves, effectively. You’ve got a 1/1 that will keep coming back even if I “kill” it, and both are +1 attacks.

Now, full size rook? …

Rambassa by itself with tower?
You still bounce smoker. Mox takes out one twin, and “dies”; nullcraft takes out the other. Draak, steward, and fading now attack T2 and tower. Instead of 4 points to kill rook, 4 points takes out tower, and there’s only a little more damage to you.

Full-size Rook? Cost is 9, I had 11. That would not give me a tech 2 building. And, … well it would have kept you away for a turn because of the two-life factor. Hmm. Yea, that would have worked.

OK, I’ll keep that in mind.

In fairness, I considered teching Bolder early on. I decided not to, because as player 1, I’m supposed to attack and Bolder is all defense.

Might have been good :_)

===

What play did I make in the past turns that was no good?

28

Ok, issue one. You mentioned “going down a card was not worth 3 damage to my base”. Maybe. At the time, I did the two cards (hook and safe attacking) to “kill” a unit, that I thought would be out of play for a turn. On the general principle of “player 1 should be offensive and not let P2 hold units early on”.

If I had realized I could not take mox out for a turn? Definitely would have played less aggressively. Would not have had a reason to play 2 cards.

Hmm, so that was worse than I thought.

29

Alright, so final comments on your comments:

First, “Undo” and “Origin story”. I was not going to pump lots of money into heroes (this was something I realized early on, looking at your spells). Full-sized rook was ruled out early on, because of your “my spell is much cheaper than your hero” response.

Your other comment was the “elite for grave is pointless”. If I had realized you had +1 attack on each unit, I probably would have done something else; I was thinking of “This hero can survive this attack” if I did anything else.

I still don’t see what the best response was.

Yes, I went down one card for aggression. I had a decent board at the time even still.

Max hero? As said, origin story would make it pointless.

Tower? Does nothing to the mox. Nullcraft, sure, that’s taken out. The rest of your side just gets a tiny ping. Will it mean “dead after two rounds”? Sure, but you’ve got that fading anyways. So it’s not a significant change, and you can kill it easier than you can kill a hero.

I don’t see any real “This is what I should have done” play.
That’s what’s bothering me.
What am I missing / what would have been better?

30

Sorry for being brief earlier ( and now), Saturdays are my main parenting day (my wife has work).

I’ll be more in depth later, but essentially the turn 2 play cost you the game. If you put a third attacker down there, I can’t safely bring a hero out. You want grave to be constantly able to threaten clearing the opposing board, and be keeping him as safe as you can. When you spend 2 cards on no further board position (not another unit), I’m safe to bring Drakk, get a free kill on a grave you’ve invested gold in leveling, and from there I’m already too far ahead for being p2 that my +1 worker economy advantage allows me to bury you pretty easily.

Martial mastery + sparring partner into building a heros hall and teching bird’s nest would have been a reasonably effective way to keep me off good offense

If perhaps showing would be clearer than telling, I’m happy to trade places and play again: I haven’t played mono white in a bit but it’s probably my most played mono color deck :wink:

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31

Alright, let me try that turn 2 again, now that I (A) know how mox works, and (B) see the importance of adding units over non-unit additions.

P1T2

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Rambassa twin (3/2 *2; 4g)
Sparring partner (2/2; 1g; gives +1/+1)

STARTING HAND
Fox Viper
Grappling Hook
Safe Attacking
Savior Monk
Morningstar Flagbearer

WORKERS
Snapback
Morningstar Flagbearer

NextHand

Aged Sensei (1/1; 1g)
Grappling Hook (move patroller)
Fox Viper (2/1; 2g; spark)
Safe Attacking (+1 arm)
Rambassa twin (3/2 *2; 4g)

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Savior Monk (2/2; 2g; heal 1) - ($2)
Tech 1 - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 3, reshuffle, draw 5

[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Grave L1 (2/3 spark)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Savior Monk (2/2; 2g; heal 1)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]: Smoker (1/1; 1g)
    [B]In Play:[/B]

[B]Buildings:[/B]

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 6
Thoughts

This is a second attempt at this turn. Since I know that Mox comes back if I attack it, there’s no point to attacking this turn. So lets go for pressure. Long term, discipline + Setsuki (mind parry monk plus card draw) still looks like the best plan.

32

Game 1 (trial 2), Player 2, Turn 2

P1 White vs P2 [Past]/Blood/Discipline

[details=Starting Hand]
Plasmodium
Battle Suits
Fading Argonaut
Neo Plexus
Forgotten Fighter
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (6+1float)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Stewardess of the Undone,
[/details]

###Main:

  • Tech 1 (5)
  • Fading Argonaut (3)
  • Worker (2)

[details=Workers]
Plasmodium, Time Spiral
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 rs Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 5

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Hardened Mox (1/1+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Fading Argonaut (2/3 fade 3)
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

####In Play:

  • nothing

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

####Gold:

  • Gold: 2
  • Workers: 7

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Crash Bomber
Neo Plexus
Battle Suits
Nullcraft
Temporal Research
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]

[details=My Thoughts]
This is a much saner approach for him, building a board. I’m in a very defensive position where going to tech 2 early is a great idea for me, but on the other hand I think my deck operates best around tech 1 units (I’m strong across the board there) + heroes. I’m going to grab Stewardess and Crash Bomber, and plan for Tech 2 Discipline. Training Grounds would compliment a tech 1 heavy approach, and a tower would work well also. If things get hairy I can tech 3 rush for Archons.
[/details]

33

P1T3

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Birds nest (Rook spell)
Birds nest (Rook spell)

STARTING HAND
Safe Attacking (+1 arm)
Aged Sensei (1/1; 1g)
Grappling Hook (move patroller)
Fox Viper (2/1; 2g; spark)
Rambassa twin (3/2 *2; 4g)

WORKERS
Snapback
Morningstar Flagbearer
Fox Viper (2/1; 2g; spark)

NextHand

Sensei’s Advice
Sparring partner (2/2; 1g; gives +1/+1)
Fox Primus (2/2; 3g; frenz, AA)
Safe Attacking (+1 arm)

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($7)
Worker - ($6)
Hero Hall - ($4)
Grappling hook: Move mox out of SQL into Elite
Level Grave to 3 (midband) - ($2)
Grave attacks Argonaut (3 damage), kills it
Sparkshot damage “kills” mox.
Your board is clear.
You draw a card gain a gold
Monk and Smoker both attack T1 (-3 total, 2 left)
Aged Sensei (1/1; 1g) - ($1)

Float ($1)
Discard 2, draw 3, reshuffle, draw 1

[B]Board Info:[/B]
[B]In Patrol:[/B]

  • :psblueshield: [I]Squad Leader[/I]: Aged Sensei (1/1; 1g)
  • :psfist: [I]Elite[/I]:
  • :ps_: [I]Scavenger[/I]:
  • :pschip: [I]Technician[/I]: Grave L3 (3/4-2 spark, ready)
  • :target: [I]Lookout[/I]:
    [B]In Play:[/B]
  • Savior Monk (2/2; 2g; heal 1)
  • Smoker (1/1; 1g)
    [B]Buildings:[/B]
  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5

[B]Economy Info:[/B]
[B]Cards:[/B]

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 0
    [B]Gold:[/B]
  • Gold: 1
  • Workers: 7
Thoughts

Heroes hall is an odd idea. I want to bring out rook for the birds.
Odd? Perhaps. My thinking is that it lets me start pinging him.
Yes, Origin Story lets him send it back. At this point, fine – force him to play “keep even” cards and not improve his board. 3 + card to remove a 2 hero? Or even a 4 hero is worth it. Time to force him to use it.

This is a change in strategy. Previously I feared this card; now I want to force it’s use.

Worker is a tough question. I like all of these, for different reasons. But if I can only play 1 card in a turn? Aged sensei is the weakest, but can buff a hero. Fox Viper is sparkshot, which may be useful for null craft / mox, but it takes 2 turns (not haste) and a T1 unit is better. Safe attacking doesn’t help enough. And hook is going to be iffy – lets me bypass a squad leader

You know, writing these thoughts out helps me. I can use hook to take out both your patrollers. I can put enough “threat” to try to force you to spend on the T2 building, or have your t2 delayed a turn. And I needed Sensei becuase I needed another unit. (almost took viper, but this guy’s job is to die, so cheaper is better).

34

Just want to make sure we’re clear that Fading Argonaut is in Scavenger, so I’m getting 1g (not a card), and Mox is not going away from the board (just temporarily sparkshot-ed out of patrol zone).

All good?

35

Oh. Even better. Yes, you get a gold instead of a card (I prefer that). And yes, mox comes back – but I have heroes hall, and a threat of birds nest.

If I can pull THAT off, you’ll be tech locked.

(EDIT: I figured out several ways that you can counter what I’m doing, but they take 3 cards. Knowing that you’re not getting that extra card? Fine.)

36

Don’t count your chicks before they’ve hatched :wink: Doubtful you’d need the hero’s hall since I’ll be killing Grave

Game 1, Player 2, Turn 3

P1 White vs P2 [Past]/Blood/Discipline

[details=Starting Hand]
Crash Bomber
Neo Plexus
Battle Suits
Nullcraft
Temporal Research
[/details]

##Events of Turn:

###Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (7+2float+1scavenger)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except turn 1)

[details=All Teched Cards]
Stewardess of the Undone, Seer
Stewardess of the Undone, Crash Bomber
[/details]

###Main:

  • Drakk + midband (5)
  • Nullcraft (3)
  • Nullcraft kills Grave, you get a card and Drakk maxbands
  • Mox kills Aged Sensei
  • Crash Bomber (2)
  • Worker (1)

[details=Workers]
Neo Plexus, Plasmodium, Time Spiral
[/details]

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 2 Draw 3 rs Draw 1
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

###Board Info:
####Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 2

####In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Crash Bomber (2/2+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout: Drakk (3/4 lvl 6)

####In Play:

  • Hardened Mox (1/1)
  • Nullcraft (1/1)

###Economy Info:

####Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 4
  • Disc: 0

####Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 8

[details=End of Turn Hand]
Stewardess of the Undone
Forgotten Fighter
Tinkerer
Seer
[/details]

[details=End of Turn Discard][spoiler]

[/spoiler][/details]

[details=My Thoughts][spoiler]
Again, this is a spot where going down a card and making Grave vulnerable is not worth 3 damage to my tech 1. My deck’s strength is in heroes and tech 1, but almost taking away the tech 1 part (and this early no less) isn’t really hurting my chances. Better to build up enough position to make a big play (surprise tech building kill I don’t see coming, destroying a hero’s hall when I’ve clearly set myself up to need it, snapbacking a hero after I commit to it, etc).

I’m taking the (mostly) free hero kill here to drastically swing the board in my favor. No War Drums tech this time b/c he’ll likely need to snapback to answer this as it stands, build up for Prynn with a Seer in the deck, and another Stewardess to take care of pesky birds (since those look likely with a hero’s hall).
[/spoiler][/details]

37

… I did not think of midband draak.

… I will remember midband draak from now on.

Like a person that remembers (a rememberer? :slight_smile: )

Side note: Rememberer is the most annoying tech 2 I can think of offhand, and certainly in your three specs

38

Past’s Tech 2 engine is certainly powerful, but in practice it’s actually pretty hard to pull off to much effect beyond stalling for an Ebbflow Archon (at least in my experience).

And yes, always fear midband Drakk XD

39

… Just realized that Stewardess of the undone would single-cardedly destroy me. … OUCH, that draak. Your likelyhood of having teched it: 100%. Your likelyhood of having it in your hand? …

You had hand 5, deck 3, discard 0.
…
I’d say 100% likely to have drawn it.

… BUGGER. That kills me with this play, have to do something else.

… 3/3/ haste with “return a T0 to opponent’s hand”.

40

If I

  • Teched one on turn 2 and none on turn 3, raw chances are ~50%, but with some game-specific insight probably closer to 80%-90% (depends on your confidence level that I would play it on turn 3 if I’d drawn it)
  • Teched one on turn 2 and one on turn 3, raw chances are ~65%, but again a lot higher if you think I would have played it last turn had I drawn it
  • Teched none on turn 2 and one on turn 3, chances are 20% plain and simple
  • Teched none on turn 2 and two on turn 3, chances are 40%

Happy to show work if you like, but generally speaking this is a helpful tool for doing the math: http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric.aspx

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