Jandra is still definitely not an F.
Quick note: Poisonblade Rogue is misspelled. It doesn’t hugely matter, but the misspelling is making Autocard not recognize it. 
Agree Jandra > F. As Player 1 Turn 1, she’s a fantastic play, especially if you also draw the Haunt, or have Deteriorate coming Turn 2. Puts her at a ‘C’ level, imo.
I feel like the fact that there’s heated disagreement on just the value of the starting decks’ cards bodes well for the long-term life of the game ^^
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I’m confused - are you saying a 2/2 for 2 is a C while a 2/3 for 2 is a C-, or is that a typo?
I think you are underestimating the cost of spending a card on a 1/1. I did review my ratings, and I agree that haunt should be higher and summon skeletons lower (see above for new notes), but I think baseline a 2/2 for 2 and 1/1 for 1 are both Cs.
Also, on turn 3 and 4 your deck is mostly still starter deck stuff, and then on turns 5-7 you might still want to play a warm body, especially if you have some sort of spell and/or hero based gameplay going on. In that case, the same tradeoff from turn 1 still applies: you can kill 2 1/1 guys with a 2/2, for the same gold cost, and gain card advantage. Or team up with a 3/3 to break a tech building while surviving a Tower.
2/2s dont go completely obsolete in the midgame, they are just mediocre… hence the “C” grade.
It depends on which deck has the better Midgame plan, though. If player A invests 2 cards in 2 1/1 units expecting to get them back from patrol bonuses, and player B just doesn’t attack, and patrols with his 2/2, the game is going to progress in mostly a standoff, which benefits whichever player is going to be doing the more broken thing. And the player who didn’t go down on cards will be at a slight advantage in that race.
You can only get at most one scavenger and one technician bonus per turn, so if the board develops to 4-5 units/heroes on each side, one player will be able to make a bunch of good attacks all at once, and minimize the patrol bonuses they give up while getting the advantages of picking their targets. For the player with 1/1s, that advantage is minimal, since his guys are dying, his Tower does nothing, and his max-band hero can only make 1 attack, compared to the player with a 2/2, 3/4, and level 1 hero who can aim their attacks and end up with a dominating board position (plus free hero levels, which early max-banding locks you out of).
I’m not saying generic 1/1 for 1 is bad, because it’s not. I just think it’s about equal to a 2/2 for 2, in the grand scheme of things.
Hardened Mox could probably use a little love! Also, why do you guys think a 2/2 for 2 is average? I feel like it’s a below average to awful turn whenever someone is forced to play one…
Apologies for reviving an old thread, but this seems the best place since it’s listed on the Codex resources.
After playing with Green starter for a while, I would dispute Verdant Tree’s rating here, since I think it’s less niche than the above quote describes. Obviously its most attractive ability is rushing a Tech II building, which is risky and strategy-specific for the reasons described.
But in a close game, where patrols are regularly getting wiped, I find the Tree’s most useful ability is instantly rebuilding destroyed Tech buildings. For 2 gold, the opponent suddenly has to destroy a 3 HP building in addition to destroying the Tech II. Unlike playing an extra patroller, overpower, Stampede, damage buffs etc. don’t let a single unit kill both of them, so in addition to the extra damage they need to get two attackers past the patrol. Plus, that 2 gold is easier to justify when you’re on 9–10 workers than when you’re on 6 workers and trying to rush Tech II the next turn.
Thoughts?
I think your analysis is accurate, and doesn’t change the overall conclusion of “this is a niche card, and you won’t feel bad if you worker it early”
Also, I now consider Bloodburn and Rich Earth to be F grade always worker cards, and Scorch to be a D (niche card good for base races), while Pillage moves up to a C- (often played around, but nice for base races).
Paying net 2 gold early for Rich Earth to save you gold later is a poor tradeoff, unless you are doing some sort of “deploy nothing as P2, and save up gold” gambit, because your lack of early board presence will cost you more than the couple of gold saved later.
Bloodburn is just too low impact for the cost.
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That’s fair. I wouldn’t grade it much higher, but I’ve found it to be less niche than Rich Earth. Maybe this is due to most of my games being in multi-colour tournaments, since you’re more likely to have aggressive early-game fights.
EDIT: Ah, I just saw the bit you added about Rich Earth, never mind!
Hello!
I offer next cost sytem (for ranking cards):
Basis:
Card (tech0) = 4 points (pts)
Card (tech1 or spec spell) = 10 pts
Card (tech2) = 16 pts
1 Gold = 3 pts
1 Gold (spending for tech2) = 4 pts
Units:
1 HP = 2 pts
1 Attack = 3 pts:
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sparkshot = 1 pts
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resist X = X pts
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anti-air = 0.5 pts per Attack (as Attack x 7/6)
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frenzy = 2 pts
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overpower = 1 pts per Attack except the first (as Attack x 4/3 - 1)
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readiness = 1 pts per Attack (as Attack x 4/3)
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haste = 1.5 pts per Attack (as Attack x 1.5)
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stealth = 1.5 per Attack (as Attack x 1.5)
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swift strike = 2 pts per Attack (as Attack x 5/3)
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unblockable = 2 pts per Attack (as Attack x 5/3)
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ranged = 2 pts per Attack (as Attack x 5/3)
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flying = 3 pts per Attack (as Attack x 2)
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can’t attack = -1.5 pts per Attack (as Attack / 2)
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can’t patrol = -1 pts per HP (as HP / 2)
Some effects:
Card draw/discard = 7 pts
1 damage to patrol = 4 pts
1 damage to unit = 5 pts
1 damage to base = 4 pts (your base = 2 pts)
1 damage to building = 5 pts
Neutral Units:
1 Timery Messenger (1/1 haste) = 6.5 pts - good but for attacking style
1 Tenderfoot (1/2) = 7 pts - standard, and strong with Virtuoso style
2 Helpful Turtle (1/2 heal) = 9 pts (heal 1 = 2 pts) - weak and situational (for attacking style), why it is not 1/3 unit?
2 Older Brother (2/2) = 10 pts - standard
2 Brick Thief (2/1 resist + Arrive/Attack: steal 1 HP building) = 15 pts - very overpowered card, equal Tech1 with 3/3 (how to fix: do it’s ability only for Attack, not for Arrive)
3 Granfalloon Flagbearer (2/2 flagbearer) = 12 pts (2 pts for flagbear) - weak and situational
3 Fruit Ninja (2/2 frenzy) = 12 pts - situational (for attacking style)
Neutral Spells:
1 Spark (1 dmg to patrol) = 4 pts - unplayable (how to fix: cost must be 0!)
2 Bloom (+1/+1 rune) = 10 pts - standard (2 pts for HP + 3 pts for Attack + 1 pts for potential boost
attacking ability (like overpower) + 2 pts for “Haste”-type boost at this turn + 2 pts (25%) for extra targets - heroes)
2 Wither (-1/-1 rune) = 9 pts - weak (6 pts for 1 damage to unit or hero + 3 pts for -1 Attack)
Black Units:
0 Pestering Haunt (1/1 unblockable, can’t patrol + small limits) = 5 pts - very effective attacking units (6 pts - 1 pts for small limits)
1 Skeleton Javelineer (1/1 ranged x 1) = 6 pts - weak, but useful at Skeleton style (maybe instead of ranged give it swift strike?)
2 Poisonblade Rogue (2/1 Attack: rune damage + armor piercing) = 11 pts - good attacking unit (8 pts base + 2 pts for attacking rune damage + 1 pts for attacking AP)
3 Jandra, the Negator (3/3 overpower, evil die) = 12 pts - situational (17 pts base - 5 pts for penalty)
3 Thieving Imp (2/2 discard) = 17 pts - very overpowered (how to fix: cost 4)
Black Spells:
0 Deteriorate (-1/-1) = 5 pts - effective spell (not worse than 1 dmg to unit)
2 Sacrifice the Weak (each sacrifice) = 10 pts? (15-5)
3 Summon Skeletons (2 x 1/1) = 10 pts - very weak and situational, useful only at Skeleton style (how to fix: cost 2)
Black Permanents:
2 Skeletal Archery (Skeletons: long-range + anti-air) = 9 pts - situational, only at Skeleton Style (3 pts per Skeleton)
2 Graveyard (0/3, tap: play buried) = 10 pts - limited but potential effective “card draw”, good with Tech1 and very strong with Tech2
Blue Units:
1 Building Inspector (1/1 + 1 tax) = 6.5 pts - good if survive (1.5 pts for tax)
1 Traffic Director (1/1 untargetable, unstoppable vs buildings) = 7 pts - good (5 pts base + 1 pts for untargetable + 1 pts for limited unstoppable)
2 Bluecoat Musketeer (1/2 long-range) = 8.5 pts - weak because of limitation (why?)
2 Reputable Newsman (0/3 ability) = 9.5 pts? - situational (3.5 pts for ability)
2 Spectral Aven (2/2 flying illusion) = 14 pts - very overpowered (16 pts base minus 1 pts per HP for Illusion) (how to fix: cost must be 3!)
3 Porkhand Magistrate (2/3 ability) = 13 pts - good with useful ability
Blue Spells:
1 Manufactured Truth (copy) = 6 pts? - situational
1 Lawful Search (draw + look) = 10 pts - very strong spell, especially in late game when cost of draw card is more than 7 pts (how to fix: cost must be 2!)
2 Arrest (disable patrol unit) = 10 pts - strong vs Tech2 (pts = 50% of unit’s pts)
Blue Permanents:
3 Jail (0/3 ability) = 15 pts?
Purple Units:
2 Neo Plexus (2/2) = 10 pts - standard
2 Tinkerer (1/2 tap: add/remove time rune) = 9 pts - situational
2 Nullcraft (1/1 flying haste) = 11 pts - strong (as 3/1)
2 Fading Argonaut (2/3 fading 3) = 10.8 pts (base 12 pts x 0.9 for fading 3)
2 Plasmodium (4/4 haste forecast 3) = 9.1 pts - good but only at early game (base 26 pts x 0.35 for forecast 3)
3 Hardened Mox (1/1 indestructible, penalty) = 13 pts - good blocker (indestructible = 2 pts per attack + 10 - 1 pts per HP, or +11 pts for Hardened Mox, +5 pts for 1/1, -3 pts for penalty).
Purple Spells:
1 Time Spiral (move time rune) = 4 pts - very situational (how to fix: cost must be 0!)
2 Temporal Research (draw 1-3 cards) = 10.5 pts - situational but potentially very strong spell, for later game
2 Forgotten Fighter (return patrol Tech0-1 limited) = 8 pts - weak because of limited (how to fix: cost must be 1!).
Purple Permanents:
2 Battle Suits (+1 Attack to Soldiers and Mystics) = 12 pts - strong (3 pts per unit)
Green Units:
1 Merfolk Prospector (1/1, tap: +1 gold) = 6.5 pts - good but situational
2 Tiger Cub (2/2) = 10 pts - standard
2 Young Treant (0/2 draw) = 11 pts - good wall, but not for early game
2 Playful Panda (2/2 tapped + 0/1) = 10.5 pts - good
3 Ironbark Treant (3/2 - 1/4) = 14 pts - very good (in defence 1/4 is stronger than 3/2)
3 Spore Shambler (0/1 + 2 x 1/1) = 16 pts - overpowered (how to fix: cost 4)
Green Spells:
2 Rampant Growth (+2/+2) = 10 pts, standard (3 pts per Attack + 1 pts per Armor + 25% pts for extra target - hero)
2 Forest’s Favor (+1/+1 rune) = 10 pts, standard (see Neutral - Bloom)
Green Permanents:
2 Verdant Tree (0/3 heal + instant building) = 10 pts - good for Tech2 and very Strong for Tech3 (6 pts for instant and 4 pts for Heal)
3 Rich Earth (0 gold for workers) = 9pts, very weak and situational (how to fix: cost 2)
Red Units:
1 Mad Man (1/1 haste) = 6.5 pts good but for attacking style
1 Nautical Dog (1/1 frenzy) = 7 pts - good attacking unit
2 Careless Musketeer (2/1 tap 1 dmg) = 9 pts - weak situational unit
2 Bombaster (2/2 sac 2 dmg to patrol) = 11 pts - strong unit with useful ability
2 Makeshift Rambaster (1/2 haste +2 attack buildings) = 10.5 pts - situational strong attacking unit
2 Bloodrage Ogre (3/2 with small penalty) = 12 pts - very strong attacking unit (maybe cost 3?)
Red Spells:
1 Pillage (1 dmg to base, steal 1 gold, x2 for Pirates) = 8pts - strong spell (4 pts for damage + 2 pts for steal + 33% pts for pirate’s bonus)
2 Charge (+1/+0 and haste) = 9 pts - good spell but only for big units (3 pts for attack + 6 pts for haste)
3 Scorch (2 dmg to patrol/building) = 12 pts - not bad but expensive spell
Red Permanents:
3 Bloodburn (tap: 1 dmg) = 10 pts - very situational (6.25 x 2 pts if each turn, but -20% for extra conditions) (how to fix: cost 2 or remove limited conditions)
White Units:
1 Smoker (1/1 stealth+) = 7 pts - good attacking unit (and ninja)
1 Aged Sensei (1/1 tap +1/+1) = 8 pts - very strong support unit
2 Fox Viper (2/1 sparshot) = 9 pts - weak (but ninja)
2 Savior Monk (2/2 heal) = 12 pts - very effective unit
3 Morningstar Flagbearer (2/2 flagbearer) = 12 pts - weak and situational
3 Fox Primus (2/2 frenzy anti-air) = 13 pts - strong standard (and ninja!)
White Spells:
0 Grapping Hook (move patrol) = 5 pts - effective spell
1 Sensei’s Advice (2x +1/+1) = 8 pts - good spell
3 Snapback (exchange hero) = 12.5 pts - strong anti-hero spell for later game (25 pts for destroy hero minus 50% pts for exchange)
White Permanents:
1 Safe Attacking (+1 Armor while attacking for Tech0-1) = 8 pts - good starting mass buff (2 pts per unit).
Welcome to the forums, Nargott.
Can’t comment right now, but I think by “suitable” you mean “situational”.
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Hello, could you please explain more how you arrived at the point system?
I don’t feel like it’s fully explained, I’m a little confused at how you arrived at some of these values