Black Balance Testing (Frozenstorm v zhavier)

zhavier · January 14, 2019, 6:42pm

My inclination is to pick something that affects the blue starter, but leads into either truth or law viability.

As a point of symmetry, making lawful search 0g or something else feels like an amusing symmetry to the deteriorate change.

Hobusu · January 14, 2019, 8:22pm

It is amusing, but I don’t think it would be good to do if it still draws a card. A free cantrip that reveals hand or discard is super powerful and should always be used every turn it’s drawn, right?

zhavier · January 14, 2019, 8:27pm

You describe dark pact with that, as the base health rarely matters. That, and Blues whole shtick is knowing exactly what to counter.

Its also not entirely free, a hero does have to be in play. So its real cost is 2g or less as the hero stays in play…

FrozenStorm · January 14, 2019, 8:57pm

I frankly preferred the proposals to either allow Lawful Search to leave a 1/1 behind, or the one that made it a sacrifice-able “upgrade”, so that it need not be cast by a hero. I think there were flavor objections, but then just call it a “Lawful Search Order” or something (think like a warrant).

zhavier · January 14, 2019, 9:24pm

I am good with the choose 2 of 3 options for lawful search, leaving it a spell.

Draw 1
Look at opponent’s hand or discard (leaving it like this so you can’t do both)
Create a 1/1 administrator token.

thehug0naut · January 17, 2019, 1:30am

+1 to see this change tested. It seems quite a promising way to buff early blue.

The other thing I’d like to see is a buffed Bluecoat Musketeer. @flagrantangles and I have been testing it as a 2/2 with Long Range. So far it hasn’t made a huge impact in our games, which have all been mono blue vs mono green. This surprised me, as I thought it would be quite a significant buff. Might be the specific matchup or the way we tend to play rather than reflecting the change itself.

zhavier · January 17, 2019, 2:14am

We shall play the lawful search change, along with the deteriorate change. Black will start and we will try a few blue player 2 matches in a row

FrozenStorm · January 17, 2019, 2:59pm

Arrighty then, let’s give it a go, gl hf @zhavier!

Game 15, Player 1, Turn 1

P1 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P2 Blue w/ improved LS

Starting Hand

Pestering Haunt
Graveyard
Thieving Imp
Jandra, the Negator
Skeletal Archery

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

Get Gold (4)
Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)

All Teched Cards

Main:

Garth (2)
Skeleton (1)
Pestering Haunt
Worker (0)

Workers

Jandra, the Negator

Patrol as below
Discard 3 Draw 5
Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

Base HP: 20

In Patrol:

Squad Leader:
Elite:
Scavenger:
Technician:
Lookout:

In Play:

Garth (1/3 lvl 1)
Skeleton (1/1)
Pestering Haunt (1/1)

Economy Info:

Cards:

Hand: 5
Deck: 0
Disc: 3

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 5

End of Turn Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Deteriorate
Summon Skeletons
Skeleton Javelineer
Poisonblade Rogue

End of Turn Discard

My Thoughts

I like the upgrade change for LS better but we’ll see how this goes!

zhavier · January 17, 2019, 3:05pm

P2T1

StartingHand Workers

STARTING HAND
Spectral Aven
Bluecoat Musketeer
Traffic Director
Building Inspector
Manufactured Truth

WORKERS
Spectral Aven

NextHand

Arrest
Porkhand Magistrate
Lawful Search
Jail

Discard

Manufactured Truth
Building Inspector

Tech 0 card(s)
Get Paid - ($5)
Worker - ($4)
Traffic Director - ($3)
Bluecoat Musketeer - ($1)
Tech 1 - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, draw 4

Board Info:
In Patrol:

Squad Leader: Traffic Director 1/1+A
Elite:
Scavenger:
Technician: Bluecoat Musketeer 1/2
Lookout:

In Play:
*

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

Hand: 4
Deck: 1
Disc: 2

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 6

FrozenStorm · January 17, 2019, 7:47pm

Game 15, Player 1, Turn 2

P1 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P2 Blue w/ improved LS

Starting Hand

Sacrifice the Weak
Deteriorate
Summon Skeletons
Skeleton Javelineer
Poisonblade Rogue

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

Get Gold (5)
Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)

All Teched Cards

Bone Collector x2

Main:

Pestering Haunt pings your tech1 to 4hp
Poisonblade Rogue (3)
Skeleton (2)
Worker (1)
Tech1 (0)

Workers

Summon Skeletons, Jandra, the Negator

Patrol as below
Discard 3 rs Draw 5
Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech1 HP: 5

In Patrol:

Squad Leader: Garth (1/3+1armor lvl 1)
Elite:
Scavenger:
Technician:
Lookout:

In Play:

Poisonblade Rogue (2/1)
Skeleton (1/1)
Skeleton (1/1)
Pestering Haunt (1/1)

Economy Info:

Cards:

Hand: 5
Deck: 3
Disc: 0

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 6

End of Turn Hand

Graveyard
Bone Collector
Skeleton Javelineer
Deteriorate
Thieving Imp

End of Turn Discard

My Thoughts

Musketeer is an interesting choice, we’ll see what he’s up to here. Building the tech1 early feels to me like something I can combat with PBR though. 2x BC feels like a good choice as well

zhavier · January 17, 2019, 11:39pm

P2T2

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Overeager Cadet
Overeager Cadet

STARTING HAND
Arrest
Porkhand Magistrate
Jail
Lawful Search
Reputable Newsman

WORKERS
Spectral Aven
Porkhand Magistrate

NextHand

Overeager Cadet
Manufactured Truth
Arrest
Building Inspector

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($6)
Worker - ($5)
Quince - ($3)
Lawful Search, draw 1 and 1/1 token - ($2)
Reputable Newsman, blocking 2 - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4

Board Info:
In Patrol:

Squad Leader: Traffic Director 1/1+A
Elite: Mirror 1/1
Scavenger: Administrator 1/1
Technician: Bluecoat Musketeer 1/2
Lookout:

In Play:

Quince 1/3
Reputable Newsman 0/3, blocking 2

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech I HP: 4

Economy Info:
Cards:

Hand: 4
Deck: 3
Disc: 0

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 7

FrozenStorm · January 18, 2019, 2:50pm

Maybe we overdid it with that Lawful Search change, I’m just now realizing how bonkers it is to get a 1g 1/1 that replaces itself while speeding cycling lol. Compared to YT and Scribe, that thing is probably the one I want most in my deck.

Game 15, Player 1, Turn 3

P1 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P2 Blue w/ improved LS

Starting Hand

Graveyard
Bone Collector
Skeleton Javelineer
Deteriorate
Thieving Imp

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

Get Gold (6)
Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)

All Teched Cards

Dark Pact, Shadow Blade
Bone Collector x2

Main:

Bone Collector (4)
Skeleton Javelineer (3)
Garth and skeleton kill SQL
Haunt trades with elite
Worker (1)

Workers

Summon Skeletons, Jandra, the Negator

Patrol as below
Discard 2 Draw 3 rs Draw 1
Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech1 HP: 5

In Patrol:

Squad Leader: Skeleton (1/1+1armor)
Elite:
Scavenger: Skeleton (1/1)
Technician: Skeleton Javelineer (1/1)
Lookout:

In Play:

Poisonblade Rogue (2/1)
Bone Collector (3/3)
Garth (1/2 lvl 1)

Economy Info:

Cards:

Hand: 4
Deck: 4
Disc: 0

Gold:

Gold: 1
Workers: 7

End of Turn Hand

Bone Collector
Sacrifice the Weak
Skeletal Archery
Shadow Blade

End of Turn Discard

My Thoughts

New Lawful Search OP lol… That’s even trumping Skeletons for efficiency, and skeletons were already totally nuts! Aven + MT is a concern if I attack with Garth, but I’ll hedge the risk by teching some Vandy spells

zhavier · January 18, 2019, 3:58pm

I dont think its as bonkers as it seems. Garth gets to create completely cardless tokens for the same cost, and use as many as he wants to draw cards, and skeletons can grow in power because the spec revolves around them. Skeletons are still greater than the token left by lawful search, plus it means passing on knowing what your enemy is up to, something blue should theoretically be really wanting to do.

Meanwhile, lawful search has to be in hand to use, and ends up back in the deck instead of sticking to the board like regular units. The unit itself is far less powerful than scribe or building inspector or traffic director, who all have important abilities or more health. Even mirrors are better than the administrator in a way, because the truth spec interacts with mirrors and mirrors can become something else more easily. I had considered having the token be a mirror, but it wasn’t really flavorful and probably would have been more bonkers for making the truth spec OP.

P2T3

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Scribe
Scribe

STARTING HAND
Manufactured Truth
Arrest
Building Inspector
Overeager Cadet

WORKERS
Spectral Aven
Porkhand Magistrate

NextHand

Jail
Lawful Search

Discard

Traffic Director
Manufactured Truth
Arrest
Scribe
Scribe

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid - ($7)
Arrest SQL - ($5)
Admin kills Scav
Quince kills Tech
Musketeer kills Rogue
Building Inspector - ($4)
Manufactured Truth Newsman into Bone Collector, kills Garth, Quince to lvl 3 heals, I get a skeleton - ($3)
Overeager Cadet

Float ($3)
Discard 0, draw 2

Board Info:
In Patrol:

Squad Leader:
Elite:
Scavenger:
Technician: Overeager Cadet 2/2
Lookout: Skeleton 1/1

In Play:

Quince 1/4
Reputable Newsman 0/2, blocking 2
Bluecoat Musketeer 1/2
Building Inspector 1/1

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech I HP: 5

Economy Info:
Cards:

Hand: 2
Deck: 1
Disc: 5

Gold:

Gold: 3
Workers: 7

FrozenStorm · January 18, 2019, 4:47pm

Lol I’m going to go ahead and disagree, as that (what you just did) seems pretty dang good lol. I think I should just fold right now, but I’ll play it out jic…

Game 15, Player 1, Turn 4

P1 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P2 Blue w/ improved LS

Starting Hand

Bone Collector
Sacrifice the Weak
Skeletal Archery
Shadow Blade
Dark Pact (techn)

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

Get Gold (7+1float+1scav)
Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)

All Teched Cards

Gargoyle, Soul Stone
Dark Pact, Shadow Blade
Bone Collector x2

Main:

Vandy (7)
Dark Pact, draw 2 base to 18
Bone Collector (5)
Pestering Haunt
Thieving Imp, discard #1 of 2 (2)
Bone Collector kills Lookout, I get a skeleton
Worker (1)

Workers

Sacrifice the Weak, Summon Skeletons, Jandra, the Negator

Patrol as below
Discard 2 Draw 1 rs Draw 3
Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech1 HP: 5

In Patrol:

Squad Leader: Thieving Imp (2/2+1armor)
Elite:
Scavenger:
Technician: Vandy (2/3 lvl 1)
Lookout:

In Play:

Bone Collector Grant (3/3)
Bone Collector Saddler (3/2)
Skeleton (1/1)
Skeleton (1/1)
Pestering Haunt (1/1)

Economy Info:

Cards:

Hand: 4
Deck: 4
Disc: 0

Gold:

Gold: 1
Workers: 8

End of Turn Hand

Deteriorate
Skeletal Archery
Soul Stone
Gargoyle

End of Turn Discard

My Thoughts

Completely sold out his hand, but that was certainly a big move… guess I should have traded away the PBR at least… I want to hit him hard on that hand size, so going to try and tech a Gargoyle and Soul Stone to just keep the board flooded while he is unable to replenish.

zhavier · January 18, 2019, 6:42pm

Meh, that was not as powerful a play on my part as you assume, methinks. You have quite a swarm over there…

P2T4

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Free Speech
Flagstone Garrison

STARTING HAND
Jail
Lawful Search

WORKERS
Spectral Aven
Porkhand Magistrate
Lawful Search

NextHand

Overeager Cadet
Manufactured Truth

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float - ($10)
Worker - ($9)
Tech 2 Peace - ($5)
Max Quince - ($3)
Tower - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 0, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 1

Board Info:
In Patrol:

Squad Leader: Bluecoat Musketeer 1/2+A
Elite: Reputable Newsman 1/2, blocking 2
Scavenger: Building Inspector 1/1
Technician: Overeager Cadet 2/2
Lookout:

In Play:

Quince 1/5, lvl 5

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech I HP: 5
Tech II HP: 5 (Peace)
Tower HP: 4

Economy Info:
Cards:

Hand: 2
Deck: 7
Disc: 0

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 8

Thoughts

Damn, killed my better choice for worker, oh well.

FrozenStorm · January 18, 2019, 9:06pm

Yeah maybe you’re right. Note your tech1 is still on 4hp

Game 15, Player 1, Turn 5

P1 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P2 Blue w/ improved LS

Starting Hand

Deteriorate
Skeletal Archery
Soul Stone
Gargoyle

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

Get Gold (8+1float)
Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)

All Teched Cards

Skeletal Lord, Dark Pact
Gargoyle, Soul Stone
Dark Pact, Shadow Blade
Bone Collector x2

Main:

BC Grant kills SQL
Vandy kills Newsman and sparkshots inspector, you get 1
Imp trades with techn, you gain 1
Soul Stone on BC Saddler, she and Haunt kill Quince, Vandy midbands (7)
Tech 2 Necromancy (3)
Skeletal Archery (1)
Worker (0)

Workers

Gargoyle, Sacrifice the Weak, Summon Skeletons, Jandra, the Negator

Patrol as below
Discard 1 Draw 3
Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

Base HP: 18
Tech1 HP: 5
Tech2 HP: 5

In Patrol:

Squad Leader:
Elite:
Scavenger:
Technician:
Lookout:

In Play:

Bone Collector Grant (3/1)
Bone Collector Saddler (4/1 soul stone)
Skeleton (1/1)
Skeleton (1/1)
Skeleton (1/1)
Skeleton (1/1)
Vandy (3/4 lvl 3)
Skeletal Archery

Economy Info:

Cards:

Hand: 3
Deck: 1
Disc: 5

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 9

End of Turn Hand

Shadow Blade
Skeleton Javelineer
Dark Pact

End of Turn Discard

My Thoughts

I think it’s pretty likely he’s teched Tax Collector / Scribe + a Garrison + maybe some other stuff. I think the best play here is to clear the board, gamble that he didn’t get a Garrison (as he’s low on funds to flood anyway), and set myself up for a hail of arrows next turn.

zhavier · January 18, 2019, 9:48pm

P2T5

Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Drill Sergeant
Judgment Day

STARTING HAND
Overeager Cadet
Manufactured Truth
Flagstone Garrison
Scribe
Traffic Director
Scribe
Arrest
Free Speech
Jail

WORKERS
Spectral Aven
Porkhand Magistrate
Lawful Search
Jail

NextHand

Manufactured Truth
Judgment Day
Overeager Cadet
Bluecoat Musketeer
Drill Sergeant

Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + Scav - ($9)
Flagstone Garrison - ($6)
Overeager Cadet, Draw 1
Scribe, draw 2 - ($4)
Scribe, draw 2 - ($2)
Traffic Director, draw last 1 - ($1)
Worker - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 3, reshuffle, draw 5

Board Info:
In Patrol:

Squad Leader: Traffic Director
Elite: Scribe 2/3
Scavenger: Overeager Cadet 2/2
Technician: Scribe 1/3
Lookout:

In Play:

Flagstone Garrison 4

Buildings:

Base HP: 20
Tech I HP: 4
Tech II HP: 5 (Peace)
Tower HP: 4

Economy Info:
Cards:

Hand: 5
Deck: 4
Disc: 0

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 9

Thoughts

This is looking pretty bad

FrozenStorm · January 18, 2019, 11:36pm

Game 15, Player 1, Turn 6

P1 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P2 Blue w/ improved LS

Starting Hand

Shadow Blade
Skeleton Javelineer
Dark Pact

Events of Turn:

Upkeep:

Get Gold (9)
Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)

All Teched Cards

Skeletal Lord, Doom Grasp
Skeletal Lord, Dark Pact
Gargoyle, Soul Stone
Dark Pact, Shadow Blade
Bone Collector x2

Main:

Maxband Garth, fetch Skeletal Lord (1)
Skeleton snipes SQL
Skeleton snipes scav, you get 1g
Vandy kills Techn, you draw 1
BC Grant trades with elite
Two skeletons snipe down your tower, your base to 18
BC Saddler breaks your Garrison
Sacrifice a skeleton to draw 1
Worker (0)

Workers

Poisonblade Rogue, Gargoyle, Sacrifice the Weak, Summon Skeletons, Jandra, the Negator

Patrol as below
Discard 3 rs Draw 5
Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

Base HP: 18
Tech1 HP: 5
Tech2 HP: 5

In Patrol:

Squad Leader:
Elite:
Scavenger: Skeleton (2/2)
Technician: Skeleton (2/2)
Lookout:

In Play:

Bone Collector Saddler (4/1 soul stone)
Skeletal Lord (3/3)
Skeleton (2/1)
Skeleton (2/1)
Skeleton (2/1)
Vandy (3/2 lvl 3)
Garth (3/4 lvl 7)
Skeletal Archery

Economy Info:

Cards:

Hand: 5
Deck: 5
Disc: 0

Gold:

Gold: 0
Workers: 10

End of Turn Hand

Bone Collector
Doom Grasp
Skeletal Lord
Thieving Imp
Skeleton Javelineer

End of Turn Discard

My Thoughts

Easy enough to imagine he teched Judgment Day and may play it, but I want everything in the cycle (especially Dark Pact and Shadow Blade). If he doesn’t have it I’ll just own, so teching the other Skele Lord, and a Doom Grasp to deal with Bigby if he comes out. Soul Stone helps too XD

zhavier · January 19, 2019, 12:34am

I cast judgment day, but you still run over me, so GG. Nice job keeping bc with soul stone. I might been ok if not for that.

FrozenStorm · January 19, 2019, 12:40am

Indeed I drew Doom grasp so definite running over, GG WP! I could see my skeleton gameplan’s demise coming and grabbed the soul stone for exactly that reason.

I’ll start a new game on Monday most likely. I have to say I’m pretty terrified of this ls change in other matchups and feel like the look at opponents hand part has been outclassed to the point of irrelevancy