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Black Balance Testing (Frozenstorm v zhavier)


#285

P1T5


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Flagstone Garrison
Free Speech


STARTING HAND
Reputable Newsman
Free Speech
Overeager Cadet
Arrest
Flagstone Garrison
Bluecoat Musketeer
Overeager Cadet
Lawful Search


WORKERS
Porkhand Magistrate
Manufactured Truth
Spectral Aven
Jail
Bluecoat Musketeer


NextHand

Free Speech
Lawful Search
Scribe
Traffic Director


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + float + Scav - ($10)
Flagstone Garrison - ($7)
Cadet, Draw 1
Quince - ($5)
Free Speech - ($3)
Reputable Newsman naming 8, draw 1 - ($1)
Worker - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 2, reshuffle, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Overeager Cadet 2/2
  • :psfist: Elite: Reputable Newsman 1/3, Naming 8
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Overeager Cadet 2/2
  • :pschip: Technician: Mirror 0/1
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Flagstone Garrison :heart: 4
  • Quince 1/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Peace)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 5
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 9

#286

I see one cadet played in your turn, but two patrolled. Did you chain your draw really nice, or is one of those not actually there?


#287

Chained my draw, drew the last card in deck with the second cadet


#288

Game 14, Player 2, Turn 5

P2 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P1 Blue

Starting Hand

Skeletal Archery
Sickness
Sacrifice the Weak
Graveyard

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (8)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Plague Lab, Abomination
Death and Decay, Gorgon
Hooded Executioner, Dark Pact
Plague Spitter, Sickness


Main:

  • Vandy (6)
  • Plague Spitter kills SQL
  • Jandra kills techn and overpowers to kill scav, you get a card and a gold
  • Graveyard (4)
  • Imp and Orpal kill newsman, Imp to graveyard
  • Worker (3)
Workers

Skeleton Javelineer, Summon Skeletons, Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 2 rs Draw 4
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 2
  • Tech2 HP: 5 DISEASE

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Vandy (2/3+1armor lvl 1)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician:
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Jandra the Negator (3/3)
  • Plague Spitter (3/1)
  • Orpal (2/4 lvl 6)
  • Graveyard (3hp, holding Thieving Imp)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 2
  • Disc: 4

Gold:

  • Gold: 3
  • Workers: 9

End of Turn Hand

Deteriorate
Hooded Executioner
Gorgon
Pestering Haunt

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Woof, nice Garrison in to start and a perfect draw chain for him. Guessing he teched at least one DS, and then either the other FS, the other DS, or the other Garrison. Best to grab some horde control then, Abom and Plague Lab sound like a good plan, with option to tech up next turn and roll with either Zarra or Lords. This will be a close game for sure!



#289

"P1T6


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Tax Collector
Tax Collector


STARTING HAND
Scribe
Lawful Search
Free Speech
Traffic Director
Arrest
Building Inspector
Scribe
Free Speech
Flagstone Garrison
Tax Collector
Tax Collector
Overeager Cadet
Overeager Cadet
Reputable Newsman


WORKERS
Porkhand Magistrate
Manufactured Truth
Spectral Aven
Jail
Bluecoat Musketeer
Lawful Search


NextHand

Building Inspector
Free Speech
Free Speech
Flagstone Garrison
Arrest


Tech 2 card(s)
Get Paid + scav - ($10)
Scribe, draw 2 - ($8)
Scribe, draw 2 - ($6)
Free Speech - ($4)
Traffic Director, reshuffle draw 1 - ($3)
Tax Collector, steal 1g float, draw 1 - ($2)
Tax Collector, steal 1g float, draw 1 - ($1)
Overeager Cadet, draw 1
Overeager Cadet, draw 1
Worker - ($0)

Float ($0)
Discard 5, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Tax Collector 2/3+A
  • :psfist: Elite: Tax Collector 3/3
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Overeager Cadet 2/2
  • :pschip: Technician: Scribe 1/3
  • :target: Lookout: Scribe 1/3

In Play:

  • Flagstone Garrison :heart: 4
  • Quince 1/3
  • Overeager Cadet 2/2
  • Traffic Director 1/1

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Peace)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 1
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10
    "

#290

Thief! I think you may have stabilized properly

Game 14, Player 2, Turn 6

P2 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P1 Blue

Starting Hand

Deteriorate
Hooded Executioner
Gorgon
Pestering Haunt

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (8)
  • Tech 2 cards in (except for turn 1)
All Teched Cards

Plague Lab, Abomination
Plague Lab, Abomination
Death and Decay, Gorgon
Hooded Executioner, Dark Pact
Plague Spitter, Sickness


Main:

  • Spitter hits SQL for -2/2 after armor and goes to my graveyard
  • Jandra kills SQL and overpowers to kill scav, you get a gold
  • Midband Vandy and kill lookout (8)
  • Resurrect Plague Spitter (5)
  • Gorgon (2)
  • Vandy to level 4 (1)
  • Worker (0)
Workers

Pestering Haunt, Skeleton Javelineer, Summon Skeletons, Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 2 Draw 2 rs Draw 2
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 2
  • Tech2 HP: 5 DISEASE

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Gorgon (2/4+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger: Plague Spitter (3/3)
  • :exhaust: Technician: Orpal (2/4 lvl 6)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Jandra the Negator (3/3)
  • Vandy (3/4 lvl 4)
  • Graveyard (3hp, holding Thieving Imp)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 4
  • Deck: 6
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10

End of Turn Hand

Dark Pact
Death and Decay
Hooded Executioner
Plague Lab

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

I don’t think I can work tech 3 with the 2 extra gold stolen. So we’ll have to operate on the Aboms and Plague Lab. Probably won’t be enough, but all we can do is try



#291

Sorry, no sparkshot for that vaguely demon shaped powerless hero.


#292

In that case Jandra will kill the scav with overpower, and Vandy will midband before killing Lookout. Elite lives


#293

"P1T7


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Drill Sergeant


STARTING HAND
Free Speech
Free Speech
Flagstone Garrison
Arrest
Building Inspector
Reputable Newsman
Drill Sergeant
Tax Collector
Overeager Cadet
Overeager Cadet
Arrest
Scribe
Free Speech


WORKERS
Porkhand Magistrate
Manufactured Truth
Spectral Aven
Jail
Bluecoat Musketeer
Lawful Search


NextHand

Free Speech
Reputable Newsman
Free Speech
Scribe
Traffic Director


Tech 1 card(s)
Get Paid + scav - ($11)
Arrest Gorgon - ($9)
Free Speech - ($7)
Cadet and TD kill Plague Spitter, you get 1g, avoids Orpal maxband
Flagstone Garrison #2 - ($4)
Building Inspector, draw 1 reshuffle, draw 1 - ($3)
Drill Sergeant, draw 2 - ($0)
Overeager Cadet, DS+1, draw 2
Overeager Cadet, DS+1, draw 2
2 runes to tax Collector, kills Orpal, Quince to lvl 3

Float ($0)
Discard 6, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 4


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Overeager Cadet 2/2+A
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Scribe 1/3
  • :pschip: Technician: Overeager Cadet 2/2
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Flagstone Garrison :heart: 4
  • Flagstone Garrison :heart: 4
  • Quince 1/3
  • Drill Sergeant 3/3
  • Building Inspector 1/1
  • Tax Collector 4/3, +2 runes

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Peace)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 2
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10
    "

#294

For posterity sake, I gotta play this out, but I feel like it’s probably over.

Game 14, Player 2, Turn 7

P2 Black w/ 1g Deteriorate vs P1 Blue

Starting Hand

Dark Pact
Death and Decay
Hooded Executioner
Plague Lab
Sacrifice the Weak (techn)

Events of Turn:


Upkeep:

  • Get Gold (10+1scav)
  • No techs for now
All Teched Cards

Plague Lab, Abomination
Plague Lab, Abomination
Death and Decay, Gorgon
Hooded Executioner, Dark Pact
Plague Spitter, Sickness


Main:

  • Plague Lab, your units weaken (8)
  • Garth (6)
  • Hooded Executioner + boost, kills scribe, you get 1g (1)
  • Jandra kills sql and overpowers to techn, you get a card
  • Vandy kills DS
  • Maxband Vandy (0)
Workers

Pestering Haunt, Skeleton Javelineer, Summon Skeletons, Poisonblade Rogue

  • :pspurpleshield: Patrol as below
  • Discard 3 Draw 5
  • Tech 2 cards before my next turn

Board Info:

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • Tech1 HP: 2
  • Tech2 HP: 5 DISEASE

In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Hooded Executioner (3/3+1armor)
  • :psfist: Elite:
  • :pspig: Scavenger:
  • :exhaust: Technician: Garth (1/3 lvl 1)
  • :target: Lookout:

In Play:

  • Jandra the Negator (3/2)
  • Gorgon (2/4)
  • Vandy (4/4 lvl 5)
  • Graveyard (3hp, holding Thieving Imp and Plague Spitter)
  • Plague Lab (4hp)

Economy Info:

Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 0
  • Disc: 3

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10

End of Turn Hand

Sickness
Deteriorate
Plague Lab
Abomination
Abomination

End of Turn Discard
My Thoughts

Perhaps can Abom + Plague Lab for big damage next turn, but I somehow doubt it. More likely he is able to start DS rune-ing me to death. We’ll see I guess though



#295

Vandy was at 3/3, killing the lookout dealt her 1 damage.


#296

DS is a 2/2 when I kill him, so no change needed


#297

P1T8


Tech StartingHand Workers

TECH
Drill Sergeant


STARTING HAND
Traffic Director
Free Speech
Free Speech
Reputable Newsman
Scribe
Tax Collector
Arrest
Scribe
Overeager Cadet
Drill Sergeant
Building Inspector
Drill Sergeant
Overeager Cadet


WORKERS
Porkhand Magistrate
Manufactured Truth
Spectral Aven
Jail
Bluecoat Musketeer
Lawful Search


NextHand

Arrest
Tax Collector
Scribe
Tax Collector
Free Speech


Tech 1 card(s)
Get Paid + Scav - ($11)
Scribe, draw 1, reshuffle, draw 2 - ($9)
Traffic Director, Draw 2 - ($8)
Drill Sergeant, Draw 2 - ($5)
Drill Sergeant, DS+1 - ($2)
Overeager Cadet, DS+2
Cadet, DS+2
Free Speech - ($0)
Quince and Tax Collector kill SQL
Move Runes Around

Float ($0)
Discard 6, reshuffle, draw 5


Board Info:
In Patrol:

  • :psblueshield: Squad Leader: Overeager Cadet 4/4+A, +2 Runes
  • :psfist: Elite: Scribe 3/4, +1 Rune
  • :ps_: Scavenger: Traffic Director 1/1
  • :pschip: Technician: Drill Sergeant 4/4, +1 Rune
  • :target: Lookout: Overeager Cadet 3/3, +1 Rune

In Play:

  • Flagstone Garrison :heart: 4
  • Flagstone Garrison :heart: 4
  • Quince 1/1, lvl 3
  • Drill Sergeant 3/3

Buildings:

  • :heart: Base HP: 20
  • :heart: Tech I HP: 5
  • :heart: Tech II HP: 5 (Peace)

Economy Info:
Cards:

  • Hand: 5
  • Deck: 3
  • Disc: 0

Gold:

  • Gold: 0
  • Workers: 10

#299

Vandy does not shade any mortals in the coil of demonic doom when she is silenced by the oppression of a dictator such as Quince


#300

Your math is sound here Zhav, I can’t get what I need to get to Quince even with the other Plague Lab + Abom in hand. GG WP!

I would certainly say 1g deteriorate helps this matchup, but it still doesn’t feel very significant. I had pretty bad draws T1 (no haunt or Jav), T3 (no sickness when it was a perfect move) and T5 (whiffed my Gorgon), while you got exactly what you needed on T5 (Garrison in hand + didn’t bottom deck cadets). That feels in line with the 8-2 / 9-1 the matchup was at already.

Based on how this series went as a whole, I would advocate for forum-errating Deteriorate to 1g as a fairly low-impact way to real Black in, and for further testing on Black vs Blue.

Would you want to try a 10-game series of black vs blue with Deteriorate 1g + one of the other proposed Buffs to Blue / nerfs to Black thrown in, to see if we can get Blue a P2 win?


#301

Yes, we Can throw in another change, and see how it plays. Which one do you think? I’d like to consider lowest impact changes first, but make sure they are actually relevant to the matchup.


#302

I’m assuming it wasn’t ever relevant that Deteriorate and Dark Pact were no longer the same cost when playing Newsman?


#303

It made it far less likely I’d choose 0 cost. But dark pact was never really the issue. The issue is generally the fact that dark pact let’s you play so many other things, and for that reason blocking those other things is more relevant.


#304

That makes sense. I still think making Dark Pact cost 1 as well would be worth testing, but there are probably other things that would be even more valuable to test.

Looking forward to seeing where things go from here!


#305

P1 Black would be sad indeed to have dark pact cost 1g and then have it and deteriorate blocked by newsman :wink:

I’ll need to brush up on the forum’s proposed idea changes, but I would love for the change we choose to test to give blue more than 1 very narrow win condition against Black (chain FS + Peace). That makes me feel like something that gives Truth or Law lines more viability would be nice.

Spectators, let us know if you have thoughts on what the best extra wrinkle to add would be!