Arena Cards

A couple inspired by Codex

Vortoss Ruins: Whenever you would draw a card, search your deck for a card and put it in your hand
–> Access to whatever tool you need, whenever you need it

Lost Temple: All normal attacks, starters, and enders are now linkers
–> Bonkers and almost certainly broken combos

Interesting… That said, others have already suggested some that would fit those names a bit better, I think.

Vortoss Ruins: @Zqxx’s Trick Room seems like a good fit for this name because of their time theme, though your idea would also work. Might I suggest that searching your deck is optional and requires discarding a card? That makes it a choice between quantity and quality, which seems interesting.

Lost Temple: @Zejety’s “Geiger’s time chamber” is begging to get this name. Remember that the point of Lost Temple in Codex is that it hearkens back to Magic: the Gathering (and probably early prototypes of Codex, for that matter) — it’s not about being crazy, it’s just that reverting some of the rules to an earlier version results in craziness in that case. Anything with the Lost Temple name should be about changing the rules to “Ye Olde Yomi.”


To everyone reading: Since so many ideas have been coming in, should I start putting the best ones in the first post? I’m hoping to get somewhere between 12 and 15 solid map cards, and having them in one central location would be nice… But I don’t want to cause any problems with people who don’t get their card(s) chosen.

What should I do?

  • Put the best map cards in the first post now.
  • Hold off on gathering them for the time being.
  • Never gather them together, ever.

0 voters

Sorry, didn’t notice this post earlier. I like making Can’t Combo moves launchers, since that’s probably what most of them would be in Smash. Though that does make literally all of Onimaru’s moves launchers… Is that something we can accept?

It is kind of silly, and I like that you used Mr. Saturn as an example! But with Mistress’s Command in particular, I think the closest Smash equivalent right now is Bayonetta’s Witch Time. It makes it incredibly easy to launch someone, but doesn’t directly launch them. Still, for the sake of elegance I can probably accept it… One way to make it not apply to those if we want is to say that moves with an asterisk by their damage don’t count, but it’s probably not worth the extra text.

I realized that too, about Oni’s moves. But unless we are concerned about ~balance~ I think it could be ok, since in Smash, when your damage is high enough, most moves become launchers anyways. Onimaru could just be Yomi’s Ganondorf. :laughing:

I was thinking: we could scrap specials and supers being launch moves and instead say, “Ender or Can’t Combo moves that deal more than 1 damage.” If we’re really going for flavor, that would make the most sense, since special moves in Smash are not necessarily good launching moves, but generally speaking combo enders or moves that rely solely on a read (i.e.: Can’t Combo) are usually big launch moves.

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That sounds perfect. And no, we’re not concerned about balance unless it breaks something at a fundamental level. Lum and Onimaru being unable to win against a blodging opponent was a balance issue worth resolving, but as I expected, neither of us minds letting one character be way better at launching opponents. Like you say, he’s essentially Ganondorf (except that he can make his attacks beat all other attacks, including ones that are 0.0 speed or can’t be interrupted).

Edit: Just to be sure, are there any characters with no Ender and Can’t Combo moves?

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Nope. I just went through each deck really quickly just to be doubly sure! :grinning:

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Hah, beat me to it! I was going through them using Yomibase, and while they all have at least a couple moves, I did notice that Setsuki can only use Starlight Tumbler or either Super as launchers. It’s not a real issue; she just needs to value K more in the late game than the early game, and powering up becomes far more attractive. That’s why this is so interesting to me! These map cards have the potential to make you play differently from normal every time you try them, and it’s sure to result in some hilarious games.

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Did anyone make a comback mechanic like V Trigger or Ultra meter?

Redeemer Field

When you are below 50 life, fetch a joker
When you are below 10, fetch 2 aces

A couple others that bubbled up:

Rushdown Arena

When you win combat with an attack, throw, or dodge, draw a card. Winning combat with a block no longer draws a card.


Bizarro Realm

Attacks beat Blocks and Dodges; Blocks and Dodges beat Throws; and Throws beat Attacks. Jokers still beat Attacks and Throws and lose to Blocks and Dodges.

Quince’s House of Lies

During the draw phase, each player must choose Attack, Throw, or Dodge. (Player with less health has priority. If there is a tie, flip a coin.) If a player combat reveals the option they stated, they immediately draw two cards.

EDIT: Balanced for blocking

During the draw phase, each player must declare Attack, Throw, Block, or Dodge. (Player with more health declares first. If there is a tie, flip a coin.) If a player combat reveals the option they declared, they immediately draw a card.

More like Quince’s Court Chambers

@pengwndude:

[details=Thoughts on Redeemer Field]As it turns out, FaceOnMars did suggest a map with a comeback mechanism, but you’re the first to suggest something inspired by V-Trigger or Ultras. I think this is even better, since it doesn’t have to deal with things that are different for each character – everyone has the same number of aces and jokers, after all.

One question I have is whether you can use this to fetch a Joker from your discard. If so, that’s extraordinarily powerful, and encourages people to use at least one Joker early on.

My other question is about the name… I don’t get it. Is it supposed to reference something?

—[/details]

@Zqxx:

[details=Thoughts on Rushdown Arena]This is interesting, though the name is ironic since it doesn’t help Setsuki, the original rushdown character. I already suggested Fury Road as an alternative name for someone else’s suggestion, but maybe it would be better here? Still, neither one limits blocking in the same way that the Codex map does… All the same, this seems like a good one.

—[/details]

[details=Thoughts on Bizarro Realm]You missed the obvious Pokemon reference to Inverse Battles! I think something like “Inverse Arena” would be a better name not just because of the reference, but also because it makes it clear what the change is. It’s not that everything’s bizarre, it’s that everything’s reversed. Regardless of the name, this is a fantastic card!

—[/details]

Thoughts on Quince's House of Lies

This is great! It feels like everyone gets to try being Quince (except it’s closer to Grave’s Knowing the Opponent), but instead of stepping on Quince or Grave’s toes, it lets both of them combine this map with their innates to either draw more consistently (they can both do setups that guarantee they get to draw a card) or get a chance at explosive drawing. Though I’m not sure why Block isn’t an option… Is there a reason you left it out? Also, I think it should be called Quince’s Palace, to reference the Pandante Casino card.


I’d just like to remind everyone that there’s a poll going in a previous post. Please vote if you haven’t already! It’s pretty even between two of the options right now, so I’d like to see one of them or the other get a decisive lead before I make a decision.

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I’m not super attached to the names, so feel free to change them up as you see fit! “Inverse Arena” is definitely a better name.

Re: leaving out Blocks on Quince’s House of Lies: I felt that allowing people to choose block would be too good. If you blocked and it wasn’t thrown, you are +3 cards for your next turn; if you successfully blocked an attack, you are +4!

If we did want to change it to include Blocks, we could reduce the draw to just +1 card. Otherwise, if you don’t think it’s a problem that calling Block could potentially be super high value, we can just leave it at +2 cards and include Blocks as well.

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Thanks! I hope no one thinks I dislike their name suggestions… I just keep seeing opportunities to provide better names. :sweat_smile:

I was thinking +1 card and Blocks allowed would work. It’s still really good to declare Block and actually do it, but if you’re always honest about it your opponent can just throw you all the time. So you have to either declare something else or lie (or both!) a good amount, and the other options are still quite good.

Though I’m now wondering about the order of declaring… Wouldn’t it be an advantage to be able to declare second, since you could decide based on what your opponent declared? Thus, shouldn’t the one with higher life have to declare first?

I was intending for declaring to work like abilities. Having “priority” doesn’t mean you HAVE to declare first, it just means you can choose whether or not you want to declare first. If you pass priority, then the other player would have to declare, and then you would.

If that isn’t clear from the phrasing, we could re-write it to say: “Player with less health decides who declares first.”

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But if declaring second is an advantage (which it should be, because you have more information), then lower health should just always declare second, to make it simpler.

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I suppose that is true. Personally I like the slightly larger freedom afforded by allowing the lower health player to choose order, but I’m totally fine with changing it just for the sake of streamlining the process.

I agree with @vengefulpickle on this one. I can’t think of a time when I’d willingly declare first, and even if some situations exist where that option would be beneficial, it’s a lot simpler to just say that the person with the most life declares first.


On a different note, I’ve compiled a list of Arena Cards (I like this name over Map Cards, but I’m not changing the thread title yet) based on suggestions people have made. I’m not posting it yet, since people aren’t voting on the poll (seriously, if you’re reading this and you haven’t voted, please vote). However, I can tell you that there’s already 17 of them in my personal list, and that’s leaving out some!

To everyone who’s contributed: Thank you. I didn’t expect so many great suggestions so quickly, and it’s blown me away. My only complaint is that I’m going to have a really hard time cutting this list down to 12 (the same number as in Pandante and Codex, leaving aside the Kickstarter exclusive Casino Cards). That’s a good thing, though – it’s a way better problem to have than too few! :wink:

Keep them coming, everyone!

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I have no reason as to my bad name, just that I was very tired and uncreative at the moment. Feel free to replace it with a better one
I’d say yes. In Guilty Gear and Blazblue you can do a burst pretty early on, but usually only once per round. However, some people use burst very early, so that they can do it once more at the end of the round if it drags long enough

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How about “Comeback Central”? :wink:

OK, that makes sense. At the same time, that description makes it sound like you shouldn’t get the Joker until 25 HP or so… Thoughts? I’m fine with it either way.